If you've ever spent hours looking for the perfect image or crafting the perfect caption, this episode is for you! I chat to mindset coach, Saba Umair (she/her), about how perfectionism creates procrastination and what you can do about it.
Saba Umair is a Mindset Coach. She helps action takers gain clarity, build confidence & strengthen self-worth by destroying their self-sabotaging patterns in business, career & life.
With the help of brain & body based techniques, she has created massive shifts in her business & life as well as destroyed her habit of procrastination, perfectionism & fear of success.
I hang out on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alexisbushnell/
Find me on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SocialMediaForHumans
Join the club to learn more about ethical and effective social media marketing: https://socialmediaforhumans.club/
Voice over by Hawke Wood: https://www.spotlight.com/3490-9081-8844
I hang out on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alexisbushnell/
Find me on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SocialMediaForHumans
Join the club to learn more about ethical and effective social media marketing: https://socialmediaforhumans.club/
Voice over by Hawke Wood: https://www.spotlight.com/3490-9081-8844
- [Hawke] Hello, and welcome to Social Media for Humans. The podcast that empowers you to do social differently. your host, Alexis Bushnell, and her guests discuss their experience of social media as business owners, users, and ultimately humans. With insights and advice to help you find in effective and ethical strategy that works for you. Grab yourself a drink and join the conversation. - Hello, hello. I am here with wonderful Saba. Do introduce yourself, tell us who you are and what you do. - Hello everyone. It's so nice to be here. I am Saba Umair, and I'm a Mindset Coach, where I help action take space holders to bridge the crap between where they are and where they desire to be in their life, in their business, with the help of subconscious and somatic practises. So, yeah. - That is something that is very needed. I think very needed. I know a lot of, I run my own membership about around social media and one of the biggest problems people have is just taking action, is just doing the thing to then find out what it's gonna do. Is it gonna be better for them? Is it gonna work for them? Is it not? So I do think taking action is one of those things and I think it kind of, we find it as people generally. I think we have this thing of like, if I buy a load of courses, if I join a load of memberships, if I listen to all the podcasts and watch all the videos, then I'm doing the thing. 'Cause I'm learning so I'm doing the thing, but actually it's so often just a way to avoid doing the thing thing. So I imagine that's something that comes up a lot for you. So tell me sort of how do you see that side of things? - So that is very real. This point that you mentioned, I mean a point where we say that we are taking action, but indeed that's not true. That's not moving the needle. It's kind of our way to soothe ourselves and tell our brains that things are shifting. We are doing something, but there's something in the outside world. That's things are going wrong. We are not the, let's say the culprits here. We are doing our part. We are, it's scrolling on Instagram, we're doing the research and everything. Which brings me to, so I always categorise these things in two different action that we get two types of action that I call it. So one is empty action and one is important meaningful action. Now what's empty action? Because we have to understand that not every action is gonna lead towards our desires or the result, the outcome that we are looking for or looking to achieve. So the empty action are behaviours that seem relevant, but at the end of the day, they don't move the needle. They don't get us anywhere. So for instance, doing lots of research about, let's say you are trying to shed weight and then you are looking up all the courses that you can join all the membership, all the gym, everything, and the, you know, different diets that you can get into. And then continuously moving in this cycle, we are doing all the research and then not actually taking action towards it, to see which one resonates with you or to learn and then implement those things. So you're not implementing anything and that's what I call empty action. Now the other one is meaningful action where these are behaviours, which help you create results. Now this actions or these actions might not be the results that you desire, but they actually move you towards a step closer towards your goals. So for instance, reading one page a day, or if there's a habit, you know, you're continuously starting to go to a gym, you're working out, be it for just five minutes. It doesn't have to be at initially, you know, a 45 minute workout that will help you. But it's just a five minute where you are developing and establishing that habit. So you're actually moving the needle and you're seeing results that when you go out, you make an effort, you go to the gym or you join that gym, or you're eating healthy rather than just thinking and telling yourself or giving yourself this excuse that see I'm doing something. But then again, I'm not seeing it a result or anything in my environment or in my life or in my present situation. So yeah. - Yeah, I find it really interesting as well that you say, like, it can just be five minutes, 'cause this is something that I talk about a lot as well with friends and also with clients, is like, you don't have to be doing like the full 100% thing every single day. You can, something that's come up a lot recently with clients is about engagement and this idea that like, if I can't do an hour or more of engagement on every platform every day, then there's just no point. And I'm like, but you could just do like five minutes. That's five minutes of engagement is good. You know, doesn't have to be this massive task every single time. It's about like you say, getting into that habit and just committing to it and doing it regularly. - [Saba] Yeah. - So yeah, I think that's something that is really, it's kind of a good way to avoid taking action to put stuff off, to go, oh, well I can't do 100%, so I'm just not gonna do anything. - [Saba] Yeah. - But also I do wonder how much like perfectionism ties into that, and that fear of like, well, if I'm not gonna do it quote perfectly, then I might as well not bother. So is perfectionism something you see showing up for a lot of people? - Oh, definitely a lot. Not only for a lot of people, but for my own self procrastination and perfectionism. I mean they go hand in hand for me at least, and a lot of people, a lot of my clients as well. So you know what you just talked about. So when we are in this habit of perfectionism we're consciously or unconsciously, we have this mentality, which is like all or nothing mentality, either I'm gonna go in, do it perfectly, and perfectly what is perfect? We have to define that, you know, perfect, according to unrealistic standards that we've put onto ourself that we will never be able to meet. So this is like, I'm gonna go all in, this all or nothing mentality or I won't do anything at all. So when we are operating from this mindset, what's truly happening is that at one end, you know, we've come up with these unrealistic standards. So when we have to understand where do these standards are coming from, what's the reason behind it? Why do we have to abide by them? So in a way that we can't break free of them, what's the reason behind it? So most of the times when we are moving into, when we are not taking action, there's a lot of self sabotage that's happening. And in with self sabotage, what happens truly happens is that we are one way or the other, this procrastination perfectionism are like coping mechanisms. So in reality, there's an underlying need so that we are fulfilling by sabotaging ourselves, either with all or nothing mentality that is perfectionism or procrastination, delaying things, avoiding things and not doing, and looking for that instant gratification in the moment rather than long-term benefit that our future self could get out of, once we do the engagement. Once we write that post, once we show up on Instagram and talk about our work or the new launch that's coming up, whatever that is. So coming back to this all or nothing mentality, one is, I wanna do it perfect, defining what perfection is for you what's perfect. And try bringing it down to something that's tangible, something that you can actually, you know, quantify it, like I said, something that is tangible. That way, it'll help your brain to understand and comprehend, okay let's say for instance, like you said, there's an engagement, I'm gonna do engagement for 5, 7, 10 minutes per day. And if I'm done with those 10 minutes, that's perfect for me, that is my standard. And if I've now, today done those 10 minutes, that is completely okay. I don't have to compare myself to this X, Y, Z, other person or my competitor, because for them perfection or their definition of perfection could be like one hour and there are in different phase. They might be in a different phase in their business. So we have to understand that. Now, coming to the nothing mentality that also comes like I've said, that also comes for, you know, there's this underlying need to stay safe and be in the comfort zone that perhaps procrastination delaying things avoiding that brings us that safety. So procrastination or perfectionism, like I said, they are coping mechanisms. And by engaging in these behaviours, what we are doing is we are, especially with when it comes to procrastination, we are fulfilling an emotional need or perhaps that we may or may not be aware of. In other hand, what truly happens is we are also avoiding, facing and confronting our fears and our emotional unpleasant emotions. You know, perhaps if I talk about procrastination, what in my life or in my business, what truly was happening when I wasn't showing up on Instagram, I was only posting pictures and hiding behind it and worrying about what other people are gonna say if I put my face out there they would know. So initially taking a step back to my story, like I started with doing (indistinct) readings. And so I was just doing those live polar card and then getting clients from there and posting on Instagram, weekly reads, monthly reads and all of those things. So it was good. It was initially as a hobby, but then there came a time where I wanted to take it not just a hobby or a side business, but more likely do doing, take it as a business that truly nourishes me because there were so many ideas that I wanted to go ahead with. So what was happening, I came to a point where I had people, you know, like we connect with stories, we connect with people as humans, you know, so, but at my end it was more like, you know, there, there's this robot somewhere, somebody who is operating my unconventional music, that's the name of my business, exactly what I do, very unconventional. So, and then what I was telling myself that because if I put myself out there, other people are gonna come up with, you know, they'll judge me, I can't face the criticism. I don't deserve that criticism. You know, that kind of stories that we have in our brain and then complaining and blaming other people and what was truly happening that I was giving my power away. You know, I was blaming these other people and thinking that I have no other option in this scenario. Whereas, when I sat with myself and I realised that what is actually happening is that I am blaming these people, complaining about my circumstances, complaining about my business, not moving forward, but what truly I was doing. I was sitting in my comfort zone, feeling safe and familiar, because that has what been familiar to my brain and what is familiar to our brain, that behaviour, that habit, those thoughts, those actions are repeated over time. And when they're repeated again and again, and again, they kind of become automated and they are there in our subconscious, like, you know, when we are feeling hungry, if there's a glass or water nearby, we will pick it up and we'll have a sip or or two. So that's kind of unconscious because we are feeling hungry. It will not, we'll not think about it. Okay, is there a glass or something of the sorts? So that was what going on. So when I realised that, okay, fine. I was procrastinating on putting myself out there, showing up on Instagram, talking about my business, letting people know what it is that I do. I was fulfilling this need or of, you know, I had this fear of success. So with procrastination, basically, it's either the fear of, in my experience, it's either the fear of failure or the fear of success. Failure as in, you know, I'm gonna do something, it's definitely gonna fail because that has what happened when I did this other launch in my business, let's say. So that's the situation with fear of success. What truly happens is one perfectionism. Second, that you are very much concerned and scared about the judgments and opinions of other people. And also you think that another reason another layer underneath is a level of, a lack of, you know, inadequate being inadequate that anything or everything that you're gonna do it will or never be enough. So being not being good enough was another layer to it. But then moving through all these patterns with the help of subconscious and somatic practises, with the help of working with people, doing work on my own, because at the end of the day, regardless of how many courses that we take, how many memberships that we join how many, posts that we read, how many articles that we read, we are the one taking action. Nobody can take action on our behalf, in not even our coaches, not even our friends, not even our peers. We are the ones who can only move the needle because this is our life. And we need to be sitting in the driver's seat and only the driver can drive the car. Nobody's sitting beside them or behind them, you know. So yeah, that's where I realised that's okay, fine. This is what is happening. There were a lot of other aspects to it as well, but these were kind of some of the few things that popped up and they still do. I wouldn't say, you know, like, so with working with self sabotage or procrastination, perfection, it's not like once you have generated or cultivated in awareness, and once you have unpacked that, and you clear those behaviours, they will never appear in your life. Again, that's not true. That's not how our emotions work. That's not how our thoughts work. It's more like, you know, once you have that awareness and you're cultivating that awareness, now you can move in a much more, in a manner that we know that this is something that you tend to repeat again and again, and this is a cycle or a loop that you need to break in order to see the results that you desire in order to see the growth that you are seeking or, and reach out for the goals that are there in your life and your business. So, yeah. - Yeah, and I think what I see a lot, a fear of success is definitely something I have had probably still have quite a few issues with. And I, for me, both myself and also in other people, I see it often confused with fear of failure because the fear we are having is like, people will judge me and we kind of see that as like, and that is failure if people judge us. And so we can kind of twist it around and be like, no, I'm not afraid of success. Success is amazing. I wanna be successful. What I'm scared of is failure and failure looks like a lot of people seeing and judging me. but actually that's usually fear of success because you are in front of more people, the more successful you are, the more people see your content, the more people are engaging with your stuff. The more people who disagree with you, you come across. - [Saba] Yes. - And so is there, maybe you don't, but is there kind of some way, I guess that people can figure out, is it really fear of failure that they're looking at or is it fear of success or is it some combination of the two? - So I would say it is usually a combination of the two. Like you can't pick them apart one way or the other. They are, it's like a cycle, but when in my experience, what I've noticed is when you are, so let's say if we take in the context of our business, once you've started it, you know, so now what truly is like, like what you just said, that, you know, I'm gonna, the more successful I am, the more scrutinised I will have to be, you know, I'll have to also hide my own, you know, wear this masks. So now more people are gonna know about me than more criticism, more judgement . So there's also an element of people pleasing. That was for me at least where I was, I wanted to say something, but was holding back and sugarcoating in a way so that it does not affect other people. Whereas what we talked about previously, Alexis, that, you know, like the centre of attention. So we have to understand we are not the centre of attention or that we are not in the centre of other people's world. When they criticise us, what happens is we take that criticism and internalise it and start coming up with all the stories for why we are not good enough, why we don't deserve this success for why our business is not growing. And you know, all those narratives and stories. And then what happens is, even though those people have moved forward in their lives, because they are the centre of their worlds and not us. And we have to come to terms with this realisation that it is our lives. And that's where we are the centre of attention, not in other people's life. They're not thinking about us. They're not thinking about how we show up 24/7. Maybe they've taken just five minutes out of their time or two, even two, three minutes while it's scrolling through Instagram and putting that comment, which kind of activated us, or perhaps there's another element when it comes to social media, we cannot genuinely 100% know the place that the person was coming from or the scenario that they were in when they put out those words to us, or maybe they had, or what their intention was, what we can do is we can regulate our own nervous system. We can understand if this activated us in some manner, what's the reason behind it, or why am I being too affected with this? Is there something that my brain is bringing my attention to us? Or do I need to look into self-regulation tools so that I can understand that this is completely okay, like kind of, you know, moving the ride, riding the spectrum, the full spectrum of your emotions. So I don't mean to say that, you know, like if somebody criticises those just shun them, no, that's not possible. And just moving ahead with your life, that's not how things work. We have to allow ourselves to feel whatever feelings that came up at that time. Perhaps, you know, we got angry, we were frustrated. We were overwhelmed because we've been doing so much, taking out so much time from a busy life doing the engagement, trying to come up with the perfect launch plan and doing things perfectly, according to our standards and rather than avoiding our feelings, the best option, although difficult, easier said than done is to feel through all our emotions and let them be what they truly are, which brings me to something recently that I've been experimenting also with my clients and my own self, is that developing my vocabulary of emotion. So not every emotion is anger or frustration or overwhelmed. There's so much more that is happening. So once we develop that vocabulary, we will be much more able to understand what truly is underneath that anger, what truly is underneath that overwhelmed. So usually when it comes to also exhaustion and overwhelmed, there's also an element of procrastination of perfectionism that is there. And then it could either be the fear of failure, failure and success, kind of bringing the circle moment to what the question that you asked is. There is this rejection that is, that comes with fear of failure. And then on the other hand with perfectionism that is the fear of success as well also comes the people pleasing. So they, if you look at a deep down, they're kind of interconnected, rejecting other people and then internalising that rejection that we are not good enough. This is never gonna be enough. This is not for me I should better look some other way or perhaps maybe go and look for a new course or a new membership or somewhere else that I can soothe myself further in rather than truly looking into it. What is the need that I need to fulfil within me rather than going out and blaming other people or allowing our fears to take the lead. So, yeah. - Yeah, and I think this is gonna sound like such a, just me begging myself up now, but I used to think the best memberships and the best courses and the best educational resources and things like that are the ones that say, this is not gonna help you, unless you are prepared to think about your own stuff. You know, unless you are recognising what is going on for you. And you are honest with yourself and you are working through whatever that stuff is this is not gonna help you. You need to also be aware of what is going on for you and the things that are coming up and making things difficult for you. Because I feel like a lot of the stuff that is out there is pitched so much as if you do this, then you will get these results. If you buy this course, you will have this thing happen. And the, obviously in a small print, it's always like only if you follow this exact, seven step programme or whatever, and there's some kind of out, that's like, you know, doesn't work in 100% of circumstances, but if it doesn't work, then it's your fault for some reason, but the actual sort of promotional side of it is so much like this is the programme that will fix your whatever problem it is. And it kind of that marketing in itself enables people to go, okay, it's not, I don't need to look at my stuff. I just needed this new programme. I just needed these steps, I just need to do this thing. And then everything will fall into place. And especially with social media, this is so frustrating to me because social media is A, always changing, and B, it really depends on your audience and your business and a billion, other different things. So it's really kind of a prime place for like promoting stuff that is varied. And like, you need to figure out your own stuff. And yet, so much of the stuff that is out there and available is like, follow these steps, do this thing. And boom, you will be famous on social media. So I guess that's coming around to a question about how can we kind of be aware of whether we actually need that course or whether what we are doing is trying to avoid those feelings, those things that are coming up for us by buying a new course so that we can kind of outsource that validation and things like that. - For this, what my suggestion would be is, the concept of present self and future self. Let's say that you're in a point in your business where you think that a certain membership, a certain training or a certain course would help you to move forward, which is okay, you know, like it's amazing to be a lifelong learner, lifelong student. There's nothing wrong with that. But all these courses, membership, even signing up for coaches, be it, whatever that is. One on one session, you know, six month containers, three month containers, group coaching programmes, everything is perfect, I'm not against them. I just love them. But if you're not gonna implement what you've learned or make effort around it, or take action to what the knowledge or information that you've learned, you are not gonna reach your goals. That's for sure, because signing up for a course does not ensure 10K months, 5K months, you know, 100K business or whatever the standards in our industry is, or what we see on Instagram when we sign, especially for the business courses and stuff like that, they can only help us generate awareness and cultivate, what is it that's going on. So we have to understand that we need to take into account the mindset work of what is truly going on and also the strategic part and bringing those two pieces together and then moving forward. So coming back to the present concept of present self and future self. So especially when it comes to procrastination. So when we are setting goals, let's say there is we have to create content and we are, you know, we set goals for our future self, where it is very easy for our brain to comprehend, or when we think about the future self, let's say this quarter only or an year from now where I'm gonna, I have a course that I wanna launch that I'm gonna create this much content around it. And when I think about my future self, this is how I see them. This is what behaviours that they are taking or actions that they are taking. And then this is X,Y,Z. What is happening? And they're posting on Instagram, they're talking about, you know, they they're creating that gentle space where they can talk about their new programme or stuff like that. So that is amazing. That is kind of a way where we can project it out onto our future self and also understanding that our future self thrives on long term gain. We can even visualise the steps that we are taking. This is where our future self is. So let's say, signing up 15 clients and we are seeing that happening and how did that happen? We were creating content and then bringing it down to step by step in little chunks towards our presence self, because our presence self is where the magic truly happens. And it is only in our presence self that we can take action, our future self can't take action, our future self. We can use it to set goals and take inspiration, feel motivated and see that embody our future self in our presence self that's only gonna happen in the presence self. Now, the research has also shown that a presence self looks for instant gratification. So when there's a task, let's say there is content that we have to create or email we have to write for our email list for next week. And we see that we have three, four days, until the email that needs to go out and we start procrastinating or dealing it, we'll do it tomorrow, do it, or let me just scroll through Instagram or just do some research like coming back to that empty action and delaying things. And the what is, we are getting out of it by procrastinating and not taking action and, you know, kind of even taking action, but that's empty. It kind of tells us that safety and that familiarity and that sense of that we are safe. There's nothing, there's no stress there here right now, kind of a coping mechanism. So that instant gratification is what our brain was like, yeah, this is what I need. And this is what our present self is looking for. So, but as the day go by more, it stress us more that we have to take action. And then the deadline comes by. So that music letter has to go out, let's say in a couple of hours or in a day or two. And that's where we know we are doing our best, we're writing it out. And we are stressing ourselves. We're burdening ourselves, even to a point where we are beating ourself up, we're being too hard on to ourself. And then, you know, telling our presence self that, even though that future self is now kind of becoming our presence self, because that email needs to go out today, like let's say, in two, three hours. So, and that kind of there's no judge. And sometimes what we do is we even step over it. And then we are like, I didn't have time. I had to, you know, I had client calls today. So I can't take off this task for some reason. And then that is where we start to go down the path of negative thought loop, where we are criticising ourselves. We are saying, you know, telling ourselves this is not the thing. And down that part and spiralling into all those negative thoughts and feeling those, not even sometimes allowing ourselves or numbing out with the help of perhaps any other, maybe scrolling through unnecessary through social media or Netflixing and just telling ourselves, you know, because we've been too hard on ourself, we've been burdening ourselves and we've come to a point where we are exhausted. Our future presence self is like, you know, this is too much, I can't handle it. And then going down this path where we are numbing ourself, for whatever reason. And although underneath, when we let's say we were sitting with ourselves or with the help of a professional, we truly can uncover is the fears, the need. Perhaps there was a fear that if you sent out this email, people are gonna know that your sales page wasn't ready. So in order to avoid that, what you did is you sabotage and then 10 years just because that perfect, that email wasn't perfect. And you didn't want yourself. You didn't want your clients to see yourself as being imperfect. And just knowing that mistakes and failures and imperfections are part of the journey only through taking action and action that is meaningful. You can understand what works for you and what did not work for you. And that brings me back to where we started, which is that, no course, no membership, nothing is gonna help you create results until, and unless you take action on whatever steps that you've learned, whatever, I'm not talking about the content, whether you should go ahead with a certain membership or other stuff, just a general where we are looking for, like you said, you know, validation outside of yourself. So first, the first step is once you have generated that awareness also coming back to ourselves, and once when we're in a our present self, even though our present self looks for instant gratification, what we can do on the flip side is that we had to send out that email, even writing like a couple of lines, perhaps, you know, a short paragraph. And once we've written that you can celebrate yourself and help yourself with the gratification, perhaps, you know, sitting with a nice cup of coffee or saying out, you know, appreciating yourself that whoa, I'm so proud of you, Saba, that you even though you couldn't try the whole email, that is completely okay, you still have time. You can do it. So, you know, kind of along with self-awareness, cultivating that compassion that even though X, Y, Z happened, that was surprising. And we were not looking that those, it was something else other than your business, something happened in your personal life that you weren't able to write more than three, four lines. And that is completely okay rather than not allowing yourself to feel your emotions. And then at the end, by the end of that task, you know, just criticising yourself. So kind of generating that awareness and then being giving yourself the space that it is okay. Even if you make mistakes. And even if that sales page wasn't perfect, it is completely okay. There's, even if somebody emails you back and tells you, you know, that there was a spelling mistake or the text wasn't aligned properly, you can take that as feedback. And then it was helpful for you know to maybe on your own, you weren't able to do it. So those kind of, you know, feedback can be helpful to you. Another thing that I want to mention, which was something just recently, I was working with a client and we were working around the fear of success. And then like what I said previously to define what success for you is, you know, what is success for you? And bring it down when it comes to especially to your business, bring it down to something tangible, let's say there is, you know, your quarterly goal. You set quarterly goals and there is a certain number that you wanna achieve in your business, and then bringing it back to how you can chunk it down to single your daily habit that we create, that those small parts can compound over time. So I asked this client as homework for until their next call. So I asked them like, just think about it every day, every step that you take define what success was for you today. And then just the call that I had two days back, which was after the previous call, the feedback they gave me was that, even though the goal seems too big. And when I look, it kind of overwhelms me, but doing this daily small step, that what was success for me today, you know, perhaps sending out that email or stepping out of the home and going out to this centre and talking with them about what options do they have if I wanna conduct a workshop. So on X,Y,Z, that was success for me, you know, something that you can help, not only yourself, but your brain to understand that this is what success is. And this is what perfect for me is right now. Although perfection is illusion. And, but because we've been so trained and rewired our brain in a way that, you know, perfect, perfect, perfect, perfect. It should be perfect. It should be perfect, untangled that in this manner and move kind of move away from it. It's not easy. Let me just put it. I struggle with it a lot, even though I have so much awareness around it, I've written so much about it and stuff like that. I've worked with clients around it, everything, but if I'm being honest, it is still very difficult, but what generating awareness. And even sometimes, even though I have this awareness, but sometimes there are days where I know that something needs to be done, but I'm procrastinating on it. But understanding that, okay, fine. This is what is happening. I don't wanna, let's say there was a post that I wanted to post on, the email that I wanted to send out, which reminds me that there was an email that I had to send out today, but I didn't do that because real life example, which was because, I was busy with my personal life yesterday. And because of, like I said, because Ramadan, my routine has shifted and it's just the first week. So I'm gonna go easy on myself. I actually forgot that I had to send it. I had to schedule an email. I forgot to actually schedule. I had written it out, but it's completely okay. Now, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna write after this call ends, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna sit with myself because I definitely low once I get onto it, there's so much, so many thoughts are gonna pop up, but I'll sit with those thoughts. But let's say there was something much more extreme where I had to send, there was something a client needs from me but I forgot to, let's say reply them back in due time in the office asked that were mentioned in our arrangement whatsoever. And I'm now I'm feeling, oh, my God, I've done something wrong. This is not how, the way to do your business something. I let those feelings pass. Initially when I didn't have that awareness, what happened was, you know, I go down that, I sometimes still do go down that path of self criticism, but right now much that I do have the awareness. What we can do is we can let and allow ourselves to allow those feelings to pass through us. And later on, when we feel we are much more calm and clear space, we can reflect back and see what led to this behaviour and what activated it, why we were going down this path, what thoughts were coming up. And even those thoughts were coming up. Were they true? What's the evidence behind it? And do I wanna break this pattern or do I want to continue with it because somehow it fulfils some, one or the other need and what that need is. What are other ways, much more helpful ways that I can fulfil that need instead of allowing myself to distract myself and procrastinate on things that need my attention or that can help me move forward in my business. So, yeah. - Yeah, can you then sort of explain maybe the tools that you are using that help you to allow those feelings to just flow through and to check in with yourself and to give yourself that compassion? - Okay, so one of my most favourite tools is EFT. It is so easy. It is so simple that can help you move through your emotions and then help you come to a place where you're feeling much more clearer and calmer. EFT, full form, emotional freedom technique, which is a very, is based on Chinese Meridian system. And it is a stress reduction tool. EFT is something that you can do at any time, whether you are in bed, whether you are in a social setting, because we tap on different Meridian points on our body. Or what, how I like to use is once I've journaled or, you know, journaling is another thing that I use to help calm down my nervous system sometimes because there's something that needs to come out. And I would either one is journaling, writing things out. How is it that I'm feeling? Or sometimes what I do is I just sit with myself. I gently just close my eyes, take a couple of deep breaths and then say out loud to whatever is coming out without any filter because I'm sitting alone. Nobody can hear me. That's only myself as I just say it out loud. That also helps kind of when you share something with somebody, it helps you feel, oh, I'm feeling lighter. So that's another thing. Then with EFT, tapping on different Meridian points on our body and saying out loud, whatever it is that's going on. And when we are tapping, there's something else that truly comes out. So where I like to it with journaling as well. So sometimes it's like, you know, I've journaled it. And then I look what has come up. And then I tap out those feelings in order to come to a place where I'm feeling much more calmer, where I'm in a space that I'm able to take a decision that will help me actually move the needle and not go down to where I started. So, or what I'm gonna do is, once I've journaled and anything out and I was in that moment, that is okay, I'm not in a mood to, you know, I'm just feeling too heavy or perhaps whatever it's, I don't have the time. So maybe in the next day or a week after, I will come back to it and I'll go through quickly skim through what I wrote. And I'll see perhaps one or two things that might have come up. So I'll sit with that. Sometimes I do that, something else that I do is breath work, breath work is amazing, amazing, brilliant. Where you just have to go with the flow, be with your body, be with your breath, no talking, nothing. You don't have to, you know, come up with so many things, something that you can do on your own easily and cry like anything and release like anything. So, and after, towards the end, there's a tap and breathe that I like to do it, like again, EFT because I say EFT a lot because EFT when it comes to subconscious and somatic practises EFT has been my utmost favourite because it has been one of the first tools that I learned and got my training in. So anything happens or anyone, if I'm even talking to my clients or we talking in between clients or if it's a messaging support that they're looking for. So I'm gonna, you know, I also teach them so that it is very easy tool that they can learn on their own and tap whatever or emotions that they're uncomfortable, unpleasant emotions that are coming up instead of suppressing them and avoiding them. Because even if we numb them, we avoid them. We suppress them. It's not that they, you know, we've put a lead and they're never gonna come out. They are definitely gonna come out especially in moments where you wouldn't want them to show up. And in order to avoid that it is better to allow yourself to move through them on your own with the help of a coach, a professional, a therapist, whatever your circumstances are. So, yeah, if you can't... I would like to the last option basically, my option is if I'm unable to move through it on my own, I'll reach out for support. Know that asking for help is such a big thing that receiving support is a huge thing. There's so much magic in it. And there's so much that we can do on our own. You know, when even when we sign up for these courses, even when we sign up for these membership, what we are looking for is support that the other person, the other party can give us a perspective that they can give us that we on our own are not able to unlock or unpack. So receiving help be it in the form of therapy or when it comes to your business, you know, reaching out for a coach or signing up for courses. It is amazing. But at the end of the day, yet again, taking action is what moves the needle. It what helps you get the results. So you are the one who needs to be in the driver's seat and you will always be in the driver's seat of your life and deciding which part to go down. Even if you decide to take action or not, you decide to implement what you've learned. You decide to make an efficacy. If things work out for you, or they might be another way out from creating the business that you desire. So, yeah. - Yeah, and you're so right, when you say like, if you avoid those feelings and those situations and things, it does come out in other ways when you really don't want them to. And I think something that I have noticed myself and that I know I've spoken to other people about is that like early in my business, I did a fabulous standup job of like squishing the difficult things down and avoiding them. And you know, what? It probably worked for like the first phase of my business. And I was like, I can pretend this is not a thing. Just get on it, do the business thing. Let's go. And then as my business sort of levelled up, all of those things that I had squished had like extra stuff added to them. And I think this is something that we, because when we look at sort of successful people who we are like, we are admiring, they're further on in their business. We look at them and we think you have it all sorted. There is no problem. Like in your life, you are clearly just amazing at everything and nothing is difficult for you. And in reality, every time you sort of level up in your business, you know, you grow, you start doing new things, more stuff comes up that you have to deal with because you are in a new situation. You know, maybe you, when you first started, you weren't doing lives. You definitely, weren't doing sort of podcast interviews. You weren't on stage speaking. You weren't doing these different things. And in the same way that as we add new tools and systems and things to our business, we have to learn how to use this new invoicing software or whatever. You have to learn to deal with all these new brain things that come up as you go through your business. I don't think there is ever a point that you get to where you go, aha, I have achieved business success and I am totally on top of all these brain gremlins. - Yeah, that never happens. That never happens. Like I say, and I've noticed, and I've seen in my own business, the more I up levelled in my business, same thing happened with my fears. They up levelled equally with me. It's not like the fear of success that was there initially two years back, it is still there. It has changed its shape and form, you know, so initially it was one on one clients and then it has now come to the group or the trainings that I do, or perhaps the podcast or reaching out to one to many people. So it it's like, okay, fine. It's gonna be one person that I'm gonna be sharing my knowledge and the way that I show up in my business or stuff like that. So those things also up level and they change shape. Now that does not mean, or I don't mean to kind of scare you. Oh, my God she mean to say that the fears are always gonna be there. So what's the point of even unpacking them. Now, the more that you understand, the less you spend time dwelling upon it, or feeling sorry for yourself or, and you being in that victim mindset. Oh, things not working, I can't do it. But rather what you start doing is you're like, okay, fine. This is the reality of life. This is the reality of me as a human that I have to move past it. And this is something that's coming up, even though this is how I might be feeling, but I know that based on my previous experiences, I can move past it. And this is not gonna stop me or dictate me, what or what I should not be doing in my business or how, or what is it that, you know, the softwares, or coaching or whatever it is that I wanna do, maybe trainings or starting a membership or whatever it is, that new thing that you wanna go after. So like, you know, even after what we talked about before getting on this call that even though there's so much work that I've done, I know my stuff, you know, like stuff like that but getting on this call to what I shared, that I'm still feeling a little bit nervous, but I'm excited for this podcast. So let's say nervousness and excitement can coexist. And that is completely okay. That is okay. So I've come to terms with that rather than, oh, no, I'm not feeling nervous. Oh, no, this has to go the wrong way. Or it shouldn't be working out because I'm feeling nervous or, you know, sending out if I would have, if this would have been Saba two years back, I probably would have cancelled this podcast. You know, this interview because of this nervousness or this, I can't do it. What if I don't, what if they ask a question and you know, I'm unable to answer it, or I don't have anything or, you know, all those things. So it's part of our journey. So rather than going down the path of those negative self talk, we should also experiment. And sometimes try going down the path of self talk, where we are appreciating ourselves, where we are holding space for ourselves, where we are showing love towards ourself, the care and love and appreciation that we put out for people that we love in our sphere, people that we love in our world. And one more thing that I wanna mention here is when you are in a place where you are in a introspective reflection mode to what's happening in your life and things not moving. And you know, you're feeling in that victim mindset in a funk and you are ready to step out of it. If you are struggling to answer questions like, you know, because this has been a pattern and you feel like you're not good enough, or you don't deserve to have a successful business for whatever reason, based on your previous experiences. What you can do is in order to disassociate, just bring, just visualise a friend, a loved one, a peer of yours, whom you deeply appreciate and cared and loved them. And ask this question that if they were in your shoes where they were feeling that they do not deserve a successful business, what words would you tell them? You know, just what is it that you're gonna tell them? How is it that you're gonna respond to them and then write that out. Or perhaps if you're someone who likes to say things out loud or record it in your, you know, the voice recorder, and then once you've recorded it and then listen to it again to what is it that you're saying. And try practising those things. And this brings to affirmations, affirmations have kind of this through time. What I've noticed has become a connotation, unpleasant, negative connotation, where people, even though things that don't resonate with them, they feel like, you know, staying out things to yourself again and again in front of the mirror is how you're gonna rewire reprogram your brain. That's not true. It's more like affirmations are like reframes. It doesn't always have to be, you know, something that starts with I am, or, you know, I am this, I am that, for some, it might work for some people it does not work. And in my experience a lot, it doesn't work for a lot of people because there's so much underneath that needs their attention before they get to this point where this sentence, this mantra works for them. So in that situation, what you can do is, for instance, you feel like can't write this email. I can't write this post. What is the reframe thought that you can come up with is something that is much more gentle. Even though I think that this might be difficult for me, I'm holding space for myself. And I'm going to make an effort to write at least two, three lines today. You know, so that was gentle. But at the same time something that your mind was able to grasp and hold onto rather than completely subconscious rejecting nopes. Not, not happening, never happened, can't be, because our subconscious is resistant to change because change is something that has not been familiar, that is out of our comfort zone and something that is out of our comfort zone. Our brain is gonna reject, even though that change is what you desire that change is what is gonna bring about the growth that you desire, the expansion that you desire in your business. So slowly, very gently taking yourself through all the steps. And you know, like healing is not linear. It's not like you've stepped up one ladder and then that's the second ladder. Sometimes you're gonna go onto the fourth step and then come down to the zero step again, you know, in situations it's not like linear 1, 2, 3, 4, and then onto the goal that you are seeking, you know, even how happens when we set goals, sometimes it's like, you are looking for only three clients and then something happens or you go viral or whatever, you know, something of the sorts. And there's an influx of clients, all of a sudden. So it wasn't like one client, two client, three client four. And it's like so many your business is growing because at one end you've been doing all the mindset work. And you've been understanding how your brain works, how your body works. You've been showing yourself compassion and love that you desire. And on the other hand, because you've taken this membership and you understanding the strategic part of it as well. So you've taken those things along and something along the lines something clicked and things started to work out in your favour. And then because you up levelled that fear of success, or perhaps the fear of failure, because you're perhaps starting a new course or something, it'll always be there for you. It's not like a wind screen once you clean it out and it's not gonna appear, it's gone oofs, thank God, no, never gonna happen. It'll always be there. You have to come to come to terms with your fears, with your doubts, with your insecurities and your patterns, the more awareness that you have, the more mindfully you can take action towards your goals, your dreams, and towards creating a successful business and remembering that success is different for every person. What start with defining what success to you is right now, now success doesn't always have to be tangible, but when I say tangible, it can help your brain to comprehend what that is, but it can only be, you know, the freedom of time and space that, you know, like four hour week or four, whatever that is for you. So just gently starting with one point, and as you comprehend that thing, then giving you, challenging yourself a little bit more, that might be a little bit stretch for your brain, but then at the other end, it does not kind of lead down the path of stress and unnecessary perfection in putting those unrealistic standards. So, yeah. - Yeah, and I do think it's important to remember as well that as we level up in our business and go through these things, we are not starting from scratch. So as you've... If you choose to look at what is difficult for you and build that awareness as you go, when you level up, you then find that you have some experience and you have some tools that you can then use to make it less difficult to deal with the next time. So it does get easier into, to sort of manage those things, even if, as you level up stuff still keeps coming up. And I think that's why it's so important that we work on stuff when it happens rather than my specific method I'm just gonna put this to the side and do stuff anyway, and then levelling up and being like, oh, no, now I have to deal with all of that. And all the new stuff. Fabulous. (both laughing) - Yeah, I can very much resonate with that because that's what I did as well initially, that, you know, putting it aside, you know, letting it pile up and put thinking that I've put the best lock that's there onto that box, but it started showing up and at a point where I did not want that box to open up, but at the end had to deal with it, come to terms with it and let it be, yeah, okay. Be gentle that this is it. That was also part of my experience, knowing that that didn't work and it it'll never work and it won't work in the future as well. So rather just deal with it if not today than tomorrow, week after a month after, but not years after, because that's truly difficult. Not that easy. - Yeah, definitely. This has been super interesting. I have loved chatting to you. If people have listened to this chat and are like, okay, I mean I'm ready to deal with my own stuff. Where can they find you? - It was firstly, it was amazing and lovely talking to you. I had so much fun. And also with the fun thing that just happened maybe. So you can find me on Instagram by the name of my unconventional musings. You can find me on my website by same name, my unconventional musings. I'm everywhere by the name of my unconventional musings. So yeah. - Very good. I will, of course put all the links in the Show Notes so people can come and find you really easily. And thank you again for being here. It's been a real pleasure. - Thank you for having me. It was lovely. Thank you - (indistinct). - [Hawke] If you want more regular reminders to find your own way to use social media, follow Alexis on your social platform of choice, all the links will be in the Show Notes. Until next time be a human.