Getting started on TikTok with Clem Holman

Learn some TikTok tips and automation hacks to make content creation more fun and less time consuming from small business social media expert Clementine Holman (she/her) of Honey Bee Social.
We also treat you to a quick rant about Instagram!

Clem help businesses grow their communities online through actionable strategies and cost effective content creation. I’m here to help small to medium sized business help them make content creation as second nature and give themselves some time back, by taking one idea and showing it many different ways.

Clem's links.
Website: www.honeybeesocial.com.au
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@honeybeesocial
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/honeybeesocial_au/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HoneyBeeSocial
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clementine-holman-small-business-social-media-marketing/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClkKutl955G9BlBQfV8lIgQ

Other things mentioned.
Stephen G Pope: https://www.tiktok.com/@stephengpope
Repurpose dot io: https://repurpose.io/
Zapier: https://zapier.com/

Alexis' links.
I've quit social media for September.
Join the club to learn more about ethical and effective social media marketing: https://socialmediaforhumans.club/

Voice over by Hawke Wood: https://www.spotlight.com/3490-9081-8844

Support the show

Buy me a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/AlexisB

Alexis' links.
Me on Toot Wales: https://toot.wales/@alexisbushnell
Or on Calckey Social: https://calckey.social/@AlexisBushnell
I hang out on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alexisbushnell/​
Me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bushnellcs/
Find me on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SocialMediaForHumans
Join the club to learn more about ethical and effective social media marketing: https://socialmediaforhumans.club/

Voice over by Hawke Wood: https://www.spotlight.com/3490-9081-8844

Transcript

Hawke: 0:00

Hello and welcome to Social Media for Humans, the podcast that empowers you to do social  differently. Your host, Alexis Bushnell, and her guests discuss their experience of social media as  business owners, users, and ultimately humans, with insights and advice to help you find an effective  and ethical strategy that works for you. Grab yourself a drink and join the conversation.  

Alexis: 0:23

Hello hello, I am here with fabulous Clem, do you introduce yourself, tell us who you are what you do.  

Clem: 0:30

Hi, I'm Clem, I am a social media specialist or social media manager, digital marketing manager.  I am, as I say in my TikTok pitches, I help small businesses grow their communities online  through actionable strategies and cost-effective content creation.  

Alexis: 0:53

And we are all about that! We are very on the same page but coming at it from kind of different  angles I think, because we were just chatting about how you're super big into like automating so that  that content can actually work for you, whereas I'm much more about let's see how much less we can  just do, let's just take stuff off the to-do list. Clem: Yeah so you're very much do less and  I guess really just create really what you love, and I am completely completely in agreement with  that, to me also though it's also make that content work for itself and work for  you, like what is the point of just having it in one spot when you can recreate it and show that  one idea in multiple different ways, and there's a lot of different methods you can do that.  Yeah and i actually think this is something that annoys me about  a lot of the sort of generic marketing advice is like every single  platform should be unique so that people have a reason to follow you on every single platform, and  like you shouldn't post stuff to your feed also to stories it should all be unique, and I'm like okay  A) who has the time and B) that feels kind of inaccessible because there are a lot of people  who are only using stories, like that's the format that they prefer to consume content in,  or they only prefer to read a really long caption, or they only prefer to see video and that's the  way that they best take in information, and to only, to sort of keep your each piece of content unique  to every single format is basically removing the opportunity to consume the other content  from people who are much prefer video and that's how they get it, or they much prefer to read, or  whatever it is, and so I am just like just put the same content out everywhere, like get the  same message out everywhere then everybody can get that information of whatever you're talking about.  

Clem: 3:00

Exactly, if you are a service-based business or a product-based business  you want to show your story so what I have said on quite a few of  my TikToks, because that's my jam, that is where I live and that is where I hang out and  you cannot tell me otherwise that TikTok is not a powerful channel. What I tell people is  marketing is the story that you're showing your potential customers, your clients, your audience,  and, you know, you have to you might have to tell that story a little bit differently to  one person or another, but if you find that you'd prefer to sit on image posts on Instagram, or you  prefer to do TikTok videos, or you prefer to do long-form YouTube videos, what is stopping you from  doing it? You don't have to be everywhere all the time, it's impossible, it is absolutely impossible,  and I think that many of these are content creators that are saying this, you have to post  multiple times a day, you have to be everywhere all the time, are not in fact actual full-blown,  they're almost not business owners in a way, they started as a content creator and  found that they were good at it and find that their success is  there, but when it comes to everything else that goes within the universe of a small business  it's like that just seems to fall to the wayside, and that's not the reality of the situation for  most small business owners at all, there's not only the operations of the business itself,  there is also creating that content or trying to help your team create that content,  and then also there's life outside of that too and, you know, you burn yourself out very  quickly if you are feeling like you need to be everywhere all the time.

Alexis: 5:02

yeah definitely and I think as well it's really easy for people to sort of confuse success as a content creator  and success as a business on social media and to forget that they're very different jobs.  If your job is a content creator your job is to create the content, to get content out there, and  largely to grow to a very big audience. If you're running a business your goals are really more  reaching the exact right people and telling them why what you do is amazing for them.

Clem: 5:40

Yeah exactly, if you asked a content creator what are the most important  metrics for them, you know, you probably hear views, followers, you know, possibly engagement, et,c  but for a business owner it's not only the sales but then also the loyalty to them and the  the engagement from their fans as well, and they understand, most of them understand that it can  be a very very long game, it's not a short and fast game. So I don't know if you are, you  might be on a few Facebook groups that are about say TikTok or Instagram, and  have you noticed that nine times out of ten the majority of the questions during the day  if you scroll through them are "how do I get this many followers?" "Why are my views down?"  And I've stopped asking why is that so important to you? Is it because you are trying to make a sale,  or is it because you really like seeing that view number quite high? And mind you  that's just the algorithm doing its job as well because especially say on the TikTok algorithm for example. I feel like I'm about to go into down a rabbit hole for for sure with the TikTok algorithm especially is a great example of how it can almost be like a gambling  addiction, where from a viewer's point of view you just get sucked into that feed, and Instagram Reels  can be like that too if you're really an Instagram person. From a creator point of view you become  addicted to getting those views and getting those followers, and mind you I'm guilty of it as well  but I also love the community that has been built, and the questions that have been asked, and people  are trusting the expertise that I'm able to give them, that they're asking those questions to me  instead of just leaving them unknown. So yes, I feel like with a with a content creator for them that's  very important is those views and those followers and such, but from a business owner  perspective is that really what you want? Would you rather have 10 followers that are buying  and that are there cheering you on, or a million followers that don't buy at all? That's yeah, I feel like we've gone... Alexis: Yeah that is a question I ask a lot of people  because it is so so often that is the question, like you say, people are "why is my reach down?"  "Why am I not getting the views on Reels now?" "Why am I not getting the engagement?" "Why is my  follower number not growing?" And like there are a lot of different answers to those questions  but the key thing is like why do you care? Is it actually important? If those things changed  would your income increase? Like do you know that would happen, because a lot of the time it doesn't,  and I see, now more than ever I think, actually business owners focusing on  social media more than making sales as if there is a direct link between if I reach more people  I will make more sales, and sometimes that's true, a lot of the time if the content that is reaching  people isn't converting people the problem is the content, it doesn't matter how many people see it  because the content is not enticing to people, it's not telling people what they need to know in order  to go "I want to buy that." Clem: Exactly, are a lot of your clients local businesses?  Like they are a geographic specific based business? Alexis: It is a fairly 50 50 mix actually interestingly.  So with like my local businesses, the ones that you know say for example  ones that are in a particular suburb, so most of their clientele comes from that suburb or  that area, and they start going down the path of you know why isn't our followers climbing,  why isn't our reach climbing, et cetera, and you know I ask them the same question, it's well  what is it? Are you trying to get more foot traffic in the door? Because social  media is not necessarily going to give that to you, social media is there  to make people aware of your brand, very much so. With a local business it's then, you really  then do in the end have to leverage Google My Business and your local community because  when they're going to be searching for someone like your business, they're not going to go on to  socials most likely, they're going to go straight to Google or Google Maps or something like that  where they put it in and then they'll find directions, they'll give you a call, or they'll  head to your shop. An e-commerce store obviously social media has got a little bit more leverage  I think, but that's where you show why people love you, you have to show your why on social versus selling selling selling selling selling, trends trends trends trends trends. Like show the point  of view of you as a company and as your brand, and TikTok has really flipped that on its head,  you know, we're seeing huge brands up there showing their lighter side and their personality. I mean  you look at Ryanair, you look at Duolingo, ClickUp, Loom, they're all showing their personality,  and they're showing their teams as well in the background, they're showing that they're human  and it's it's working for them, you know, they have now a brand presence and a strength that it  makes you feel like you could actually go and talk to them versus, you know, Facebook who is a robot at this point. Are we gonna start trash talking Facebook? Let's do it!

Alexis: 11:46

I feel like that is just my life at the moment, it's just me cursing Facebook, I hate it so much!  

Clem: 11:53

Mine's the Gram, I can't stand the gram. Alexis: That is really common right now. Which is where we met!

Alexis: 12:02

I was saying before before we recorded, I found you on Instagram and now you're over  on TikTok and I'm like argh! It's much more difficult for me to just follow everything  you do now because I'm not that big into TikTok. Clem: But you know what it's, I think you don't spend a whole lot of time on TikTok, you don't scroll or anything like that do you,  you're there to see what it is like as a tool, as a potential tool for your clients and such?   Whereas I've used it as a tool for my own business and it's also helped some of my clients  as well, and I've gained clients from it too, it's just, it works for me, you know and I've been able to learn so much on there that now it's also looking expanding at other channels that  are outside of Instagram and outside of Facebook that I didn't think were necessarily possible, but  also being able to expand the point of view that social can be for humans and  for small business owners and not be bogged down by it, so that you can get back into  what's important about your business but also what's important outside of the office as well.  So the stuff that I've learned on that channel is insane whereas Instagram it's been, Instagram to me is just now the high maintenance ex that you dated that you really regret going  out with and that just happens to be there in the background nagging you and calling your mom  every 15 minutes trying to find out what you're doing and why aren't you talking to them, that's  what I feel like Instagram is. And they're going through an identity crisis as well. That is a brilliant explanation. Clem: That's a hill that I will die on and no one can change my mind about that, they really can't, I can't stand that channel, anyways enough with the whinging, I'm sure that many social media managers that'll be listening  to this will be like "yes! Say it louder!" But this is not what this interview is about. I am so glad you're all bringing this back on track because like I am very  easily led into just like let's just rant about how awful  these various social platforms are and how frustrating they are!  

Clem: 14:20

Yeah like that's the latest they were coming out with. Anyway yeah, anyway let's go, let's keep going!

Alexis: 14:28

Talking about sort of getting the most out of your content and being able to expand across  new platforms, how does that look for you at the moment?

Clem: 14:42

So there's something that's called automation and I don't want to sound, I guess, patronising  but to explain automation to people that don't know what it is, essentially if this action happens then this action will happen. So you can set  up things between platforms that don't talk to each other to automatically occur. So I learned  and am still learning and really building off of the skill and it's addictive as well.  I have managed to create a machine essentially that when I create a TikTok it'll automatically  get downloaded into Google Drive and from there creates a task for my graphic designer and VA to  create social posts for my other channels, that TikTok also gets automatically transcribed  so that I have the speech that I have whatever topic that I've explained ready  to go that I can put in as a blog, I can use it to create social media captions and text, and I can even then just repost those TikToks directly onto any channels. Going from working until nine o'clock at night sometimes, and I have a two-year-old as well  you know, so having to stop to give him dinner, to spend time with him and everything,  I was really stressing myself out because I felt like I was just constantly in the weeds  and I've set up this system that has saved me at least two to three hours a week,  sometimes even more when you start doing all that batch planning for clients all of that stuff is  already there in the Google Drive folder ready to go, you just have to go and slot it into a calendar.  Being able to have your content whichever way you create it, because I'm not saying you  can only start with TikTok, or only start with Instagram Reels, a blog if you're a  writer and you want to start that way you can set up a system so that it automatically works for you  instead of you re-hashing that idea and and burning yourself out, make that idea  and show it in different ways without so much heavy lifting. It's possible, it's absolutely possible.

Alexis: 17:16

Yeah this is like taking repurposing to the next level I feel like. I'm big into like repurposing content but I do tend to find that I do it manually,  that I will go through a blog post that I've written and pull out the relevant bits  and then turn them into social posts and stuff like that, so I am very interested  as to how you have actually managed to automate some of this if you would be happy to share.  

Clem: 17:49

So unfortunately we're going to go back to it all started on TikTok! I crossed paths  on my TikTok feed with a TikToker called Stephen G Pope and we've become  I guess TikTok colleagues and friends in the long run and he ended up just  showing like, hey this is how I've automated it, and he does it in a much much more in-depth way  than I do because he also has a podcast, he does long-form video for YouTube, etc,  and he uses a lot more tools as well and he's also a bit more of a, he's more of a data type person, so excel spreadsheets and everything are his jam,  whereas they're not so much like me, but he opened up a course  on let me show you all the things that you could possibly do to automate some of your content and  how to actually build a basic machine. I took it and I went this is... oh my god, this is insane!   And so then I ended up actually testing it out, trying it out for myself,  broke it a couple of times you know, but I managed to ask Stephen, he's amazing because  you can ask him questions and he'll go in and he'll be like yep, that's the  missing bit there, you know, try this, try that, that community that he's created is fantastic. But  I've taken that and I've, you know, customised it for some of my clients and now it's so much  less work not only for myself but for them too that it's just simplified our workflow  to the point that all they have to do is I will give them a challenge, I'll say for example let's take a hairdresser client, you know, so tell me what low porosity hair is.  I had no idea what that was but it is such a thing, and they show me on video,  you know, they're in the salon, I don't even have to be there and I might tell  them hey, could you mind filming this a little bit more and like just talk to the camera and,  just as if we're face timing, and what comes out of that is a video that they've given me that I can  edit and they don't have to worry about anything else except for going yep, that's exactly the right  answer with the final video, and then that's it, Bob's your uncle it's going to go off onto  all of their other channels and it's just made work a lot easier and a lot more fun as well.

Alexis: 20:28

I think a big question a lot of people will have is how long did it take you initially  to get it running?  

Clem: 20:39

It is not a one stop thing, it is trial and error and testing it  and you know you, it's not like you can test it in a test environment and then make it go live  like you do with website pages and stuff, it's not like that so it took me a good I would think  about two months until then I saw another TikTok from, no, I saw a comment on one of Stephen G Pope's videos  from a guy who, when I looked at his profile, said he was the CEO of repurpose dot io and  repurpose dot io is, I tried it out and that was just the game changer for me, it's  made this whole automation machine user-friendly so someone who's not really that technical  could in fact even try this out for themselves. And when I tried it out I ended up breaking my automation system and rebuilding it a little bit and tweaking it, and I ended up emailing the CEO and just went "you have built the Henry Cavill of repurposing platforms!" Henry Cavill's my hall pass, I'm like "you have no idea what you have on your hands here, like this, what you've done  is just gonna be a game changer for people want to buy their time back," you know. It's not, I don't  think it's just the last two years that have made people realise that they want some  of their time to themselves back, and self-care, and being time with their families. I feel like  without the pandemic we would have come to that point, it would have taken us a lot longer but  wanting that time back as a small business owner so that you can spend time with your  family, and spend it out of the office, this has helped so much creating an  automation system that works for you and makes your content work for you.  

Alexis: 22:44

Yeah, I have not heard of repurpose.io but that is absolutely where I am going this afternoon.  

Clem: 22:51

Oh you will, you might start drooling when you look at it! Like the stuff that you can do  on there is insane, insane! Alexis: That sounds absolutely fabulous and I think the other thing as well is that like, you were saying, it allows people to focus on creating content, in the format they enjoy, and then make it easy for themselves to turn into content  that they're not a big fan of creating but that enables them to get it out elsewhere, because a  lot of the people I work with hate video. I don't know how I attract all these people who hate video!  A lot of them were like "I don't want to do video content," but if you've written a blog  post and then you can automatically repurpose that into various social media posts, and even just like  turn the text into a video that like pops up on screen or whatever, or you put just your voice over  it, or you hire a very fancy video graphic designer person to make it move and cartoony There's even platforms where you can put in the blog and it'll find  license free images that relate to particular points in your blog and create the video for you,  and even add in a voiceover over that, you know. There's even, if you want to try your hand at  facing the camera on your phone for example, there are even teleprompter apps that you can go and  put in that body of the text and, if you're really nervous, start practicing by using one of those.  So there are other ways around it. Yes a face is much more engaging but if you need to, if you  want to start dipping your toes in the water and being able to repurpose that blog into a video,  there are options out there. Alexis: Yeah and I think actually because like you say absolutely, faces are so much better, if you can be on video with your actual face, do it, but I tend to find  that a lot of the resistance and the nervousness to people being on video and  being like "I hate video" is that they they're worried what people will say  and when people start doing it and they get the feedback that's just like "oh it's so lovely to see  you, oh I can put a face to the name, oh you don't sound like I thought you would sound,"  people suddenly realise like okay, this is like people on the other end of this, you know? It's not  like the hate mob that I have been told about, it's actual people who are following my content anyway  and can now get a different view of me. Clem: Even if you do get that,  the trolls out there, sure you might get a comment or something and I mean I get them, thankfully not that often, and you might get them as well,  you can always delete their comment, you don't have to respond. Yes it helps your engagement that  you've gotten a comment and stuff but you know what, the thing is is that in the comments it's, the comment section is supposed to be a safe space for people and, you know, I think  I did a video about this recently, it's well okay, well if your comment section is like that  networking party, because in the end what is Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook? Social media  networks. They're there, you should be using them as a networking resource. If each one of  your channels is a networking party and you're letting a bully in and you're allowing them to sit there and spoil the party, what's going to happen? You're not going to get other comments,  and you're not going to seem trustworthy, and you're going to lose potential clients, potential  customers and followers because of it. So yeah you might be nervous about how you look, the feedback  that you're gonna get, but you know what, you can always delete the comments, you can always delete  that negativity there, you don't have to look at it, it's not like you're face to face with them.

Alexis: 27:11

Yeah yeah, and I think people seem to be really really nervous to delete comments, and to  block people on social media, even as businesses, and I think from a business point of view there  is way less sort of social politics involved than if it is from your personal account and  you want to block your auntie who said something racist but your mum will be really mad.  Like you don't have that problem and, like you say, it is so about  protecting your own community, it's not just about protecting your own mental health, you know, it's  about saying like this is what I stand for and I will not allow you to harm in any way the  people who follow me by leaving hateful comments or by just being mean to people in my comments because  that is not the community that I want to build and that is not what I stand for and it's not okay.  

Clem: 28:15

Yeah exactly, it's don't give them the space, all they want is to rile you up in the first place so  why are you going to allow them to do that? That's quite simply, it's intolerable.  I do wish that platforms would do more to punish those people that do that because  it seems like they get away with it quite a lot, but the thing is, is that you have a lot more power  within your own channels anyway, just do not give them the space to say anything. And you know what  the brilliant thing is, is that if you have built a strong community, your community is going to go  after them, they are going to defend you as well, I've had it happen before and people that  I have not even met and I saw one troll come in and one person fired right back at  them and just went "how bloody dare you say that," you know, and what have you, and then another  person came in, and another person, and I just went "I didn't even ask you guys to say anything  and you've backed me up, like I'm just like wow, this is amazing, it's it's great!" It's, you just have to shit or get off the pot! That's, I don't know how else to say it, it's just shit or get off the  pot. Like that really is, I know that some people are so fearful of doing that video but  at the same time there are other ways around it where you don't have to show your face, and  yes it is more engaging, and yes you might get trolls, but there is always an option  or another path that you can do that can get you to the destination that you need to be at. 

Alexis: 29:58

Yeah yeah. Sort of on the topic of like things people are worried about, things  people are nervous about doing, I think tic-tac...! TikTok is on that list for a lot of people,  and for the people I work with I think a lot of it is "I'm too old for TikTok", like  TikTok is for the youth, I don't know what the trends are.  

Clem: 30:23

Absolutely not. I don't remember where I read it but I saw a stat that said that 35 and up was the fastest growing age group on TikTok and it's  not just parents that are going on there to go and look at what their teens are doing on the channel,  it's adults being genuinely interested and entertained. Yes the parents are on there but  you know what they're also doing? It is an avenue for them to vent, it's an avenue for them to  vent about their teenage kids just being dumb but realising that that's how they were  when they were their age, you know, that kind of stuff. Or um it's, yeah so 35 and up was the fastest  growing age group. And then I think if you look at just the stats alone for the U.S. I think it's  25 to 55 accumulates for the largest percentage of TikTok users, I think is what I saw as well. So saying that you were too old, no! There is a community on there for absolutely  everybody, everybody! I mean some of the things that I've seen, there's  one TikToker on there what he does is he goes and rescues trolleys  that have been abandoned and he has a huge following. There's another one, I don't  know if you've heard of him, I forget what his name is, I think it's Francis, he just he train spots and  he has 2.1 million followers, that's all he does, that is all his TikToks, he trains spots. So if you think that you don't belong on there it's just so you haven't found your  your friends, you haven't found your peeps that you can hang out with and share stuff with.  

Alexis: 32:15

Yeah and I think that's true of any platform that like, there's so many people who also say to  me like "oh well Instagram is all like people who are into celebrities and super thin models and  fitness and like lifestyle and stuff," and I'm like ah, that's not how that is.  

Clem: 32:31

No, it's not, not at all. I mean if you think about it Instagram, I can't believe I'm about to say something good about Instagram! Instagram is what  TikTok, Instagram when it first started is what TikTok is now from a photo sense,  where what their mission statement is about bringing people closer together in  in community or something, you know, like that's what they were at the core,  you can still find a community on there through hashtags for example,  I mean supposedly they don't do anything for for your posts and whatnot but. 

Alexis: 33:08

Don't get me started! 

Clem: 33:10

Sorry, if the big content creators on Instagram are still using them then I still have  a feeling that they know that something else is going on, not to sound like a total conspiracy  theorist but if you can still search hashtags, those hashtags are little communities  you know, and it's the same thing on TikTok, all of those hashtags are little communities  and the things that you can find on there is you can find your group, wherever.  

Alexis: 33:36

Yeah yeah, that's true, if somebody was wanting to start and on Instagram...  On TikTok! What would be your sort of top tips for them if they were like  okay, I believe you Clem, I am gonna give it a go, where do they start?

Clem: 33:59

Okay from a creating point of view on your profile you can pin three TikToks at the top of your  profile, if someone finds one of your random TikToks and they want to go and figure out  who you are, so they're already interested in who you are, your bio has got to be complete and  those three pinned TikToks are a visual way of showing who you are as a business or as a person,  so I suggest one of those videos has to be an intro, it has to be a "hey I'm Clem, this is what I  do, this is this is what my channel is going to be about," you know, that that sort of thing. I don't want to toot my own horn, I really don't want to, but I've just redone my intro video on  there and what I've done is I essentially have done "hey, I'm Clem, this is what I do,"  but I've also put in this is what I promise that you're going to get, I promise I'm not  going to say this, I promise I'm not going to be endorsing one behaviour over another because  everybody works differently, so I'm not going to say here you need to post three, four times  a day in order to be successful, I don't agree with that, you know, because  a TikTok video can take anywhere from five minutes to create to sometimes an hour if  you've got a lengthy piece of information that you want to describe, then there's the editing  and the captions and stuff. So first pinned video I'd say is an introduction of who you are,  what people expect on your channel, what you do, a little like mini bio essentially.  And then the next two pins what you want to be known for.  So if you've got a TikTok that's gone viral for example, you know, or eventually that goes viral, you  can put it up there, or if you are an e-commerce business like showcasing  a new product, that would be a prime spot to put it there. So your top three pinned TikToks when you eventually you start building your videos that's like a mini bio of yourself.  Of course there's also your profile bio, definitely have that filled out.  You have to have I think a thousand followers in order to be able to put a link to your website  now, before if you joined TikTok even I think a year ago you were still able to  put a website link on there if you had less than a thousand followers, so  I always tell my clients we're going to go the pace that you want but just so you know  the thousand followers is when you're going to be able to get that website link.  And then the other thing a good profile image. And then number four, so if you imagine the TikTok profile, you've got your profile image and your bio, at the very top is user one two three  four five six seven, change that to what you want to be known for so that when people search whatever industry that you're in you should be within that list, so for example mine is  I think is "small business marketing" and so when you search small business marketing I'm  on that list, and you know I might be at the top, it might be in the middle, somewhere like that.  And handy tip, your profile photo, have it match what you've got on your Instagram and YouTube  as well, that way people can easily recognise you when they're on those other channels too.  

Alexis: 37:38

Yeah that is something a lot of people forget and when you say it to people and you're  like, you know, it's about like if people want to then go and find you from like, even  if they found your website and they're like I want to go and find them on social media, they  need to be able to recognise who you are from the photo because it's the same photo on your website  as it is on your Instagram, and your Facebook, and your TikTok, and your Twitter, and everywhere else.

Clem: 38:00

Yeah, it's brand recognition.

Alexis: 38:03

Exactly, it's just about making it super easy because I think we've all  been there when we've been like "is this the brand I want to be...? Is this the right account?  Maybe this is somebody else." Clem: Yep yep, exactly, exactly. Yeah yeah,   I could keep going with tips but I think we'll stop there, I don't want to overwhelm anybody.  No let's not overwhelm people sat at home just like "uh wow, that's a big list! Let's uh uh?!" 

Clem: 38:32

"This doesn't sound like starting!" But at the same time I think  the thing if you really are starting to get into TikTok as well is  have fun, test it out, it is all about trial and error, it really really is. And don't think that you have to be dancing in front of the camera or anything, you know, you can make something so simple as you know, typing away on your computer and just  have text in the front if that's easy for you. Don't do it all the time but test out and see  what works, play around with some features, have fun, they make some really fun effects on there,  there's some really comedic sounds that you can try, it's all about just I think  jumping in and having a little fun and a little play, especially from a business point of view,  it's like the fun side I think of social to me, that's another hill I will die on!

Alexis: 39:33

I think it's true, so many people have, especially like freelancers and solopreneurs, people  working on their own who are like "I am my business, I represent my business so I have  to be professional." I hate that word! I hate it so much, I hate it more every time I hear it!  

Clem: 39:53

Polished. I think that you hate professional, I hate polished. Like you've seen my videos, I am  most of the time in my tracky pants, if it's a really bad day I'm still in my PJs or  in leggings, my hair is in a mum bun, I'm never wearing makeup because that's just who I am. People have been able to let their hair down on it, whereas if you have to get polished it's just  are you really being who you in fact are, you know. And mind you, I'm not in any way  attacking or disagreeing with the the TikTokers that are in the makeup scene  and etc, I think their content is fabulous and I love watching it because I look at them like  how can they make, how can they create art on their face? I could never do that. Like I  half the time poke my eye with the mascara wand if I'm wearing mascara, but for them  that's, you see their personality shine, whereas I think on other channels there's still a stigma,  you know, and it's not just Instagram, it's also LinkedIn big time I think, there's a big  stigma that you have to stay uber professional and everything, and I've just gone  yeah, we've all been homebound for two years and I've gotten really comfortable in my leggings, I am  not going to change the way I look and the way I work for a corporate business networking profile.  

Alexis: 41:32

I do, I think it's so true like it's about, I hate to say it but it's about being authentic. It's  about like the person you put out on social media is the person your clients meet. So if,  I think if you are somebody who is gonna like get on a video call with a client or go for  coffee with a client or whatever or they're gonna come into your shop and they're gonna see you  in a fancy business suit with your hair all done and fancy makeup, then that's probably how you need  to be showing up on social media because that's who they're going to meet, but if they're going  to hop on a video call with you and you're going to have like dogs woofing in the background and,  absolutely happening here, and you're going to be in your trackies and your hair's going to  be a messy bun and you're going to be sort of running in sloshing coffee everywhere  because you're running a little bit late, like maybe that's how you show up on social  media, because it's about building that accurate representation of who you are  so that the people who would get on with working with you can find you instead of  finding the professional version of you and being like "I don't know, we don't really gel."  

Clem: 42:43

But I think it goes even deeper than that as well is that if you are being your authentic self  as people say on the Gram, you know, if you are being yourself it is so much easier  for you to build trust with someone who you aren't seeing on the other side of the camera.  When you are creating content for example, so if you are actually in fact being yourself you're  able to resonate more about who you are, what you do, why you love what you do and your passion, and as  well as why you know your stuff, versus if you were putting a face on and creating a persona that  isn't a hundred percent you which is why those people that are creating those makeup  tutorials and everything, they are in fact they're not putting on a persona, their persona is who they  are without the makeup and when they put it on and they're creating that art on their face that's  who they are genuinely, and they've been able to connect with the community so well because of it.  I think it has been a shift where it is going let's let our hair down, and  the way we really end up connecting with people is through being ourselves and creating that trust,  so that that client can trust you and, in the end, you can have that Zoom call in your pyjamas. Now  mind you, I do actually get into regular clothes if I go and see a client in person, but you know, I think it's really just about if you show who you are from the very beginning as a  business owner you're going to get that clientele that is going to mesh with you better than if  you try and put yourself into a frame and a mould that might not necessarily really fit you.   Do you see where I'm going with that? Alexis: Yeah and I think as well from a sort of, even  from a human perspective it's that vulnerability, like if you show your true self that is vulnerable  and being vulnerable with people allows them to go "wow, you're like a real person, wow,  I can actually see who you are," and from an even sort of deeper perspective it gives a lot of  other people permission to do the same because they can see you showing up as who you are and go  "oh it's actually okay to be like publicly a mess, or publicly whatever it is," you know, it's not  shameful, it's not weird, it's not a bad thing, it's not unprofessional, it's just   who I am and that's okay, and I think that's really powerful as well. yeah yeah big time it's  you know, whether your true self is polished or whether it's not, yeah, showing who you are as a person and showing your business's personality  you will attract that community that you need, it's just it's a long game  and that's what many people forget, is they've become very impatient  and it's just a long game and that that's the next big thing that people need  to understand as well when they start doing social media and business and such. So I don't know  about you but whenever I have a discovery call with a potential client I make them understand  like the only way this is really going to work is if you understand that this is a long game.  Digital, the digital space and digital marketing in general has created this idea that  everything's instantaneous, and it doesn't help when you have creators going, for example I saw  a Facebook group post today where it was "if you haven't reached 10000 followers  in three months then you just need to restart your account," and you know, whereas you know at the same time it's okay, well how do you deem that  success? And yes, it's this idea of instantaneous gratification where it's  so much harder to get people to convert now that showing who you are and being true to yourself  is going to actually help you in the long run, and it's just playing that long game  big time. I saw something I think it was a few days ago where it was  in Japan there are thousands of small businesses that are over a hundred years old,  thousands, whereas in the western world most small businesses don't  last a year, and what it came down to is that when a small business starts they don't look at a  one-year plan or a few years plan, they look at a 20-year plan.  What does success look like in 20 years? How do I get to still be existing and being successful  in 20 years versus most of you know the US and UK and Europe and even here in Australia  the mindset is have a business plan that's like a five-year plan or a one-year plan  and only work in those increments, versus let's see how long I can really last. So that mindset of playing that long game has really helped those businesses in Japan to the  point that you know some of them are still family owned and still considered a small business and  still around in a hundred years time is huge, they understand that it is the long game versus  many of us now who think that it's, you know, I need to just slap a ton of posts three times a day  and put a ton of makeup on and be this personality that I'm not really and Bob's your  uncle and make a squillion dollars in two hours. Yeah so it's be your authentic self  but also it's a long play the long game, big time. Alexis: Yeah yeah I think it's interesting  you say about that sort of 20-year plan as well because I think if you plan for that distance  you are kind of forced to think "how do I make this business sustainable for me?" Whereas if you're  thinking "I am going to make a one-year plan, I can totally just work myself into the ground  for a year to build this business," which is, I have so many thoughts about this attitude! Anyway. It is then so tempting for people to run themselves into the ground for a year, not  actually get their business off the ground and be burnt out and then not be able to do anything  because they've run themselves into the ground for a year. Clem: And I mean, mind you, that's what I nearly did.  Like I was really running myself into the ground, like working until nine o'clock at night, and when  I first started you know, I still had a full-time job, I was waking up at 4:30, 5 o'clock in  the morning to work on the business and then  working even after work and stuff, and then  once I had my son I was almost doing the same thing after a couple of months  of kind of taking things a little bit easy because I felt like I needed to succeed, but  in the end that one year, that five-year plan just didn't, it was not sustainable whatsoever,  and now thinking of the longevity, of where do you want to be in  say 10 years time? Instead of where do you want to be in six months? It's like okay, I think I know  where I want to be and how do I get there by working my way backwards so that I can be  sustainable, and the big key is not burning yourself out, which for me, and I mean maybe,  I don't know if you do this is sometimes is just cutting myself off from and actually  putting in measures to discipline myself so that I don't burn myself out. So for example  I actually go, we have a property in rural, out in the bush as we say out here,  where there's no mobile phone reception, there's no wi-fi, my phone does not work out there and I  actually can shut off and it is the best thing for me. So my clients know that there there are some  weekends I am not available because I need to have that disconnect and they appreciate it because I  come back swinging with I've had this idea, I've had that idea, what do you think about this?   So putting in those disciplinary measures so that you can be sustainable, so that you don't burn yourself  out, is very handy and sometimes it does mean shutting off. And I think you had someone on  the podcast that shut off their Instagram, I think was the last episode that I listened to,  and it worked wonders for her, you know, because in the end what is social  media in the end? It's a social media network in the end is a business, they are there to make money,  you are essentially doing the work for them  instead of. Flip that, if you think of it that way instead of "I need to be on there, " need  to be on there at all times, I need to do this that and the other on these channels," instead  of thinking they're actually using my content so that other people can spend longer on the channel  so that they can feed ads to them so that they can make money and keep their shareholders happy,  well hang on, that doesn't really work for me. Yes I'm being given an audience but is  that really sustainable in the end for myself and my business and my mental health? No.  

Alexis: 53:18

And I think actually the other thing that I want to say is like that that 20-year plan, that  long-term plan also gives you the ability to think more strategically about your marketing  and not get hung up on like I have to be on all these networks, I have to be on the next  upcoming network, I have to change my whole plan because now there's this new network  or this isn't working or that's not working because rather than being reactive like that  and every six months, or every three months, having to change your entire plan, you've got this goal  of like this is how I want to reach people, this is who my people are, this is where they are, this  is how they communicate with each other, and you can then adapt much more easily to like  okay, this platform isn't really working for my audience anymore, cool, but you already know where  they are because you know who they are so you can just move with them to the platform that they're  actually using rather than jumping on wherever you think is like cool and trendy right now and trying  to find them all over again.

Clem: 54:29

Yeah I mean when was the last time you heard anything about Clubhouse?!

Alexis: 54:34

I know, I know! Clem: A perfect example of what you just said.  when was the last time you heard anything about Clubhouse? I think I'm pretty sure  it was about a year ago and it was all because everybody wanted an invitation  and that app is almost dead at this point, it's people on there wanting to toot  their own horn etc, but no one like, I mean you know LinkedIn was trying their audio only, twitter has  put up their audio only sort of stuff, but no one seems to be really chomping at it because  it's not really where people are, but everybody wanted to be on it and they were all over it  you know, and then before that it was TikTok as well, but TikTok had that longevity  because it was just, it grabbed all of your senses, almost all your senses because obviously you  can't smell or taste anything, but I mean I could practically taste the screen with some of the cooking TikToks that I see but. Yeah, I mean that, exhibit A what you just said is  you know, Clubhouse is one of those hype things and wanting to be on there and did that really in the  end work for many people? I don't know, I haven't heard any amazing success stories out of it.  I think it was for, there were a few people who got in early and were able to get platformed by  very big people and I would bet the percentage of people who did well from Clubhouse  was probably less than one percent because,  that was how it really happened.   

Clem: 56:10

That would be the argument to jump onto every social channel as soon as it comes out because when you get in early and you get your foot in the door that's it you'll have the biggest piece of real estate,  but at the same time there are over 95 social media channels in the planet.  Like for example Facebook doesn't exist in China, is it Weibo?  WeChat, I think or something like that. It doesn't exist in China so  you know, it's okay well that's where you need to be there but you can't be everywhere at once, so  it comes back to that sustainability, and if we want to loop back even further into  our conversation that's where that automation stuff helps you be sustainable as well, where  if you're putting your content out there and making it work for you that, in the end,  is a digital form of sustainability I think. I might be stretching it just a little bit but  you know, if you put everything in place then if you're not able you can take  a step back and it just runs on its own and you know, I think that's the beauty of the time and the age that we're in, but again I think what we're coming back to is  how do you become a sustainable business, and you have to think a lot longer term than five years.  

Alexis: 57:32

Yeah definitely. So yeah coming back to automation then,  what are the first steps before anybody even thinks about like getting to repurpose dot io or  really digging into the actual tech behind i,t and building the robots and things that do it, what is  the first step? What do people really need to be considering to do that?

Clem: 57:58

Yeah, if you wanted to start with an automation machine, if you wanted to build something like what I've  described there's two questions that you should answer, so one what is what is the easiest way  for me to create content? What's the one that I absolutely love to do? And essentially  my assumption is that if you absolutely love to do it, it's going to be really easy for you  to create right, so what is the easiest way for you to create content? Number two is then where  do I want that piece of content to go? How far do I need to go and what are the steps that I need  to take in order to get it from point A to point B to point C, channel D, whatever? So essentially  with that question number two you create that map, so for example with mine  it was okay, I want to start with a TikTok, I've got Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube,  and you know, let's throw Pinterest in the mix as well because I had a Pinterest channel and I  wasn't doing anything with it and Pinterest being not a social media platform but a search engine  I found that I'm like okay, this probably has a lot more longevity than Facebook and Instagram  which, you know, well I have my opinions of them. LinkedIn is just to have that presence there,  and YouTube is again a search engine too, so I'm like okay, all right the channels are  there, if we're going to map this out how do I get that TikTok or the the content that I  have described or said with that information, how do I get it into each of those platforms? Oh and  not to forget your website! Your website is the only piece of digital real estate that you own,  all of your social media channels disappear tomorrow your website could still exist,  so let's think of that as almost like that should be your hub, you know, so then  come up with all the steps that you have to take in order to  land on each one of those channels, and I guarantee you there is some sort of format or platform or step that you need to take that can be automated. So if you are constantly say  putting in your project management system tasks to your graphic designer  about creating an Instagram post about this topic that you  spoke about in a video or something like that, that could be automated  for sure. I actually have it automated in my project management system and Click Up so  that when a TikTok goes into Google Drive there's a platform called Zapier  where you can create it so that it automatically creates that task and assigns it to that person  so that they know we need to create an Instagram post about this, we need to create a Pinterest tile,  we need to create a YouTube thumbnail, because we know that eventually it's all going to go  on those channels for example. I'm not saying it's just those three but as an example, hypothetically.  So it's creating that map and just breaking down all the steps so that you know the tasks  that are entailed in that workflow and then even labeling what platforms you use for each one  and then seeing if there's a way that you can automate those tasks in particular. Zapier is a  great platform to go and have a look at. What Zapier is is essentially like a Rosetta stone,  so they make one platform that doesn't necessarily talk to, so like platform A won't talk to platform B, Zapier becomes the Rosetta stone between them to get them to speak to each other. So I get it  so that it's like okay this video is in Google Drive, Zapier kind of just goes yup, you're going  to go and talk to ClickUp now and we're going to create that task in ClickUp in the right folder,  for the right client, with the right channels and requirements, because you can template that task.  I think that makes sense, it makes sense in my head because I, you know, built it, but!   

Alexis: 1:02:25

Yeah yeah, no, I think that is very clear and yeah, I think what I would say I think as well  is I sense, knowing some of my clients, I sense that they're going to hear this and go "I can be  on like every platform, amazing, I just need to create like one piece of content and then I'm  going to create this automation that's going to go everywhere."

Clem: 1:02:48

There's one thing that they forget is that it's a social media network! You have to go and network  on there, you're still gonna have to go on there and communicate to people and comment and engage,  that's the biggest thing that I think clients forget that they have to do.  Sorry I didn't mean to interrupt you but that had to be said! Alexis: Yes yeah and I was also  what I was going to say is actually that is a great way to overwhelm yourself as well, to go  from like I'm only on Instagram and now I'm going to be on every network because I have  an automation. Don't do that! Like pick one as a network maybe to start with and be like okay,  get something set up to get stuff over there. Clem: Because the beauty of something  like this is that if you create that basic machine essentially with say platforms like  repurpose dot io and your project management system, a lot of stuff you can build off  of it, you know. You don't have to have everything, all of it connected all at once and that  if you have a technical background as well, I mean I hope that most people agree with me,  if you start small then you're able to build off of it because the problem is if you build a  huge machine from the get-go and it doesn't work it can be like finding a needle in the  haystack in order to try to figure out what that little tweak has to be in order to get everything to work and to function, because sometimes the error messages that you  get you're like what the hell does that mean?! Like you know, error token? Like you use tokens?  I don't have any tokens, you know. So for someone who isn't technical, that's  not used to coding or anything, just be careful and start very very very basic.  

Alexis: 1:04:40

Yeah yeah and I think as well if you start small and simple it gives you the practice  as well, so that you can then build on that knowledge. So you might initially start with just  a thing that's like it saves the original content to a Google Drive or somewhere and then it copies  the actual text from it to somewhere else and it sets a notification for me to create an image or  to schedule this post or something, and then when you've got into the flow of that  you might then think "I wonder if I can add this in, that would make my life a little bit easier again,"  and then you figure out how to do that little thing and add that in, and gradually it builds.  And I think this comes back as well to that like need for instant gratification and  I have to have success right now so I have to have it all figured out immediately,  actually generally works a lot better if you just baby step into it and and try things get the first  thing sorted, working for you, and then expand when you need to.

Clem: 1:05:45

Yeah exactly. The other thing that some  people might think once they build this machine is you can just set and forget it  but you know, you obviously say with your social media captions for example you  don't want the exact same thing said across each channel, so you still are going in the end to have  to go in there and modify text or rewrite a few sentences, you know. Even like Instagram posts  for example, you're probably gonna end up having to add hashtags if you're still doing hashtags,  so there still is going to be some of that manual work involved, but  building something like this takes the heavy lifting out and a lot of the bulk of the  mundane tasks that take up and chew up time.

Alexis: 1:06:31

yeah, yeah yeah and I think one of the things that sort  of stresses a lot of people I work with out about repurposing is also this like you have to remember  to go in and like copy the content and save it somewhere, and it becomes this mountain  job that in your head feels insurmountable, and then you put it off forever, whereas if you've got  an automation set up that you know is like saving all the content that's going out as you create it,  if you do find that like you've got  a couple of hours to spare on a day that you  finish all your client work or whatever, or you've put some time aside to work on your business,  you can just go into that resource and go "right okay, how do I use this now? Where am I  going to put this? What do I need to do with this to actually make it usable elsewhere?"  

Clem: 1:07:25

Exactly, exactly, it frees up that time so that you can go in and do the tasks  that you needed to do, or even start working on the projects that you wanted to start working on  because I mean like admittedly,  you might understand this, where there  have been times where you're just in the weeds when it comes to creating that content calendar  for a client and you've got no idea what to put in, you know, you've looked at Google Trends  and all this stuff and your mind's just going a blank and having that database just automatically  filled for you it's so much easier to go and be like "hey we were talking about this four months  ago, it's probably time that we bring that topic back up in social. Okay let's do it now," and then  that way your calendar gets filled up relatively quickly. It makes it easier in so many different fronts to have all that stuff automatically done for you.

Alexis: 1:08:18

Yeah definitely. So from an automation and also from like a simplifying perspective  I do feel like we're very much on the same page because I think we're both very much like  focus on the content that you actually enjoy creating and don't push yourself to create  like more and more and more content and set yourself this goal of like I have to be posting  seven days a week, or three times a day, or whatever it is. What do you sort of tell clients who  have sort of taken in maybe a little too much of that Gary Vee advice and are a little bit like  "I need all the content, we need to get loads of content out there !"

Clem: 1:09:05

I ask them why. And a lot of the time they can't really answer that question and I mean this  is this is where the the discovery calls with clients before you say yes, I will work with you  really really help to see if you actually are in fact the right fit.  Because the ones also that I find that are like that, that have to have  that Gary Vee mentality of you have to be everywhere all the time, it's all about speed, it's not ever about quality, not only are the ones that seem to burn themselves out a  bit, they're also the ones that have also burnt through a lot of other freelancers, agencies because they don't necessarily want to understand really  the abyss that is in fact involved in content marketing and digital marketing in general.  It comes back to again to that long game where you know, it's they want to see that ROI that is so  difficult to prove instead of understanding that, you know, social is very much about  building the community, your website is very much about bringing in those clients and customers,  so again back to that mindset of marketing is the story that you show them,  advertising is the message that you're telling them, so you know "we're the best  at what we do" or what not, but sales are the actions that are going to close the deal.  They kind of expect the marketing to do all of that for them, they expect the advertising  to bring in squillions of dollars, but sales no, screw that!  Sales and marketing are one and the same which it's not. So those clients  have a tendency of not being the right fit for me because they're the  ones that don't necessarily want to build that community around them and play the long game,  and they also are incredibly much more, I think, profit driven versus longevity. That is going to piss a lot of people off but that's,  I think that's the mindset you have, you have the Gary Vee mindset and  punch it all out, do that, do the three to four posts a day, or churn out that content, you know,  blah blah blah, the thing is though mind you, is that if you go and churn through content and  stuff like that on particular channels they can in fact shut your page down because they'll deem you  as a spam or a bot, so then what is it in the end? Quantity just actually does not work, you look like  crap and if it does that, is that how you want your brand to look, is just you know a spam, a bot to  to the algorithm that you have zero control over? No, no, so that's kind of,  that's in my experience what I've noticed is that people that have that mindset they're  the ones that end up churning through agencies and freelancers and consultants and such because  they don't understand that long game and it doesn't really work with, I think, with a lot of digital marketers in general. Alexis: Yeah, I completely agree. I do think that focus on profit and, not that there's anything wrong with profit, we like profit,  I just don't think it is the be all and end all, and I think it is important to also have  that sustainability and other things in your life as well that are important to you.  Yeah and I think it's also if we looked at say if you're churning out content that's not really informative and it's not really  helpful to your target audience, they're not going to read it in the end, right?  And you're going to end up spending a lot more on advertising dollars sending them to a page  that they're going to deem as a dud and it's not really going to help them, so what you are really  in the end doing if you're thinking of that mindset is you're spending more money on ads  and advertising than you are about making your shop front, your digital shop front,  which is your SEO, and your website is your digital office, as a really solid foundation to what you are and what you are about and you're not spending the time on creating  your social media as that digital version of your business card, or the digital version of the flyer  that is whizzing through in traffic, you know, that people will suddenly notice, you know what I mean.  Like it's that you end up spending more money that you wanted to keep in your pocket versus  creating a solid office shop front space and personality in a way, and a community.  

Alexis: 1:14:30

Yeah, so if people want to find your digital office space and your digital community where  can they do that?   

Clem: 1:14:39

Well you can find me on TikTok, so my my TikTok handle is HoneyBeeSocial and then I'm also on Instagram as HoneyBeeSocial_AU then my website  is HoneyBeeSocial.com and I'm on a few other channels but TikTok all the way, that's my jam if you want to if you want to see me on there as my very true self, yeah that's where I live.  

Alexis: 1:15:10

Fabulous, fabulous! All of those links will of course be in the show notes so people can find you  super easily yeah and honestly it has been such a pleasure to actually chat to you in  person, well digitally. Clem: Exactly and like we were saying off air before we started  recording, this has been like a few years coming like, I think you were one, I think  you're one of my first like Instagram colleagues I think from when I started my Instagram page  and stuff, I don't quite remember how we met but it was the stars aligned on the Gram and you know, we  started chatting and stuff, and connecting, and commenting, and networking essentially,  and here we are! Alexis: Here we are, yes, and it has been really lovely.

Hawke: 1:16:01

If you want more regular  reminders to find your own way to use social media, follow Alexis on your social platform of choice,  all the links will be in the show notes. Until next time, be a human.