Neurodivergent knot untanglers discuss LinkedIn, TikTok and life!

After finding each other when almost giving the identical pitch at a networking session, Louisa van Vessem (she/her) and I have got together to discuss life and running a business with Autism.

Louisa is a strategic partner and mentor for business owners and professionals.  She is someone that is creative, strategic, analytical and pragmatic and uses those strengths to untangle minds.  In return, she offers clarity, direction, strategy and accountability to help take you from where you are right now to where you want to be.

Louisa also runs an online community called InclUSion, offering a fun and safe space for business owners and professionals.  This empowers individuals to come together, celebrate who they really are and help them realise their potential.  The community was inspired because of Louisa’s own personal experiences with solo-parenting,  autism and chronic health issues and that’s why she is passionate about diversity and inclusion.

Louisa's links.
Website: https://IngeniousCorner.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ingenious.corner
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ingeniouscornerco
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@louisa_ingenious_corner
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ingeniouscorner
Membership: https://ingeniouscorner.com/membership

Support the show

Buy me a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/AlexisB

Alexis' links.
Me on Toot Wales: https://toot.wales/@alexisbushnell
Or on Calckey Social: https://calckey.social/@AlexisBushnell
I hang out on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alexisbushnell/​
Me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bushnellcs/
Find me on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SocialMediaForHumans
Join the club to learn more about ethical and effective social media marketing: https://socialmediaforhumans.club/

Voice over by Hawke Wood: https://www.spotlight.com/3490-9081-8844

Transcript

Hawke: 0:00

Hello, and welcome to Social Media for Humans, the podcast that empowers you to do social differently. Your host, Alexis Bushnell, and her guests discuss their experience of social media as business owners, users, and ultimately humans, with insights and advice to help you find an effective and ethical strategy that works for you. Grab yourself a drink and join the conversation.

Alexis: 0:23

Hello, hello, I'm Alexis, my pronouns are she, her, and I am here with the fabulous Louisa. Do introduce yourself.

Louisa: 0:32

Hi Alexis, and thank you so much for having me join you. It's really exciting. so as you've mentioned, I'm Louisa, my surname is van Vessem, it's half Dutch, uh, my pronouns are she, her, and what I do is very similar to you. I love to untangle minds. And give people the clarity, direction, confidence, mindset, et cetera, et cetera, that they need to kind of know what to do and take them from where they are right now to where they wanna be.

Alexis: 1:02

See, I love this because there are not enough people untangling minds., Louisa: as I found out last week or oh, someone else did the same. Yes, we were on a networking call for people listening. We were on a networking call together. And I essentially stole Louisa's pitch without realising.

Louisa: 1:27

And the thing is, I am like, naturally like this shy introvert. And so for me, I can talk and I can talk and I have my own community and everything else. But when it comes to that 60 second pitch, I go, rabbit in the headlight moment. And then I heard you talk and I was like, What am I going to say? It's just going to sound like I'm copying you.

Alexis: 1:50

But it was fine. You did fabulously.

Louisa: 1:53

Thanks. We got through it.

Alexis: 1:56

What, what kind of minds do you untangle? Let's start there.

Louisa: 2:00

Um. It's really anything, so I don't have a niche and I think this is almost, or I find now that different people I talk to that are potentially neurodiverse, so they haven't got the diagnosis, but they're kind of thinking they could be, they also don't tend to niche either sometimes. And I think it's because we've got so much knowledge and experience. Experience and everything else that we're selfish and we want to have our cake and eat it. And so, you know, I work with product owners, service based owners, um, different industries, but then if you look at my career, my career is like that too, um, and I was having a conversation with someone about this, well, about a month or so ago, that when you're in the corporate world or whatever else, it's like It's welcome to be talking about and being able to help with different topics and areas and stuff like that and then as soon as you go to being self employed it's like you must niche, you must niche and I don't. Kind of a long winded answer.

Alexis: 2:59

No that's fair and I think there are definitely a lot of people who are neurodivergent who don't want a niche and I definitely, I have struggled with it and I, I have basically niched to neurodivergent people, um, which might be cheating, but who cares? But I think it is something a lot of neurodivergent people struggle with. Um, and I think you like say, because we have a lot of different skill sets, some through special interests, and some through having to learn certain things to function. And so I do think there is also this desire to kind of pass on that knowledge and be like, Yeah, but you can do it because I figured it out. I have the secret. This is it. You can do it too. Which I think is really nice because I love hearing other, like, neurodivergent business owners, the passion they have for what they do and how they help people is so wonderful because there is this genuine like Excitement. I'm like, yeah, let's do the thing, which I just, it just makes me happy. I

Louisa: 4:11

think if you were to say my niche, I think it would be basically people I like, and that I have those shared values. Um, so that was probably about as niche as I get, um, which often does include neurodivergent people, um, people that have chronic illnesses or that have got life experiences, I guess. And so it comes down to that, those conversations, doesn't it, and you're relatable and you, you've got your own story and I don't know about you, but I've gone through a lot in my life in various different ways. And it feels like because of that, that it means you can sort of give those different perspectives, not just because we're wired differently, but because of what we've gone through and how we've kind of overcome obstacles and challenges and everything else. And that's what makes it really exciting. And like, I genuinely love to help. Probably I go a little bit too overboard, but, you know, I think that's probably like my special interest almost, so the fact that I want to help, I want to make a difference and that's what I get really excited and passionate about.

Alexis: 5:18

Yeah, that's so cool. That's so cool. I definitely think one of my special interests is like human brains, human psychology, all that. I'm just like, oh yeah, tell me how your brain works. Tell me why you think that way.

Louisa: 5:31

It's so interesting though, isn't it, right?

Alexis: 5:33

Yeah, there's so much variety. That's, that's the thing, even within any given, like, neurotype, there is so much variety, and so much, like, opposition as well within it, of like, like we were saying earlier, like, we both need structure in certain areas, but for things like this, we really don't, we want to just wing it.

Louisa: 6:00

Which, and I always find it interesting because obviously I have a LinkedIn live that I do every week and being the shy introvert, you'd think that I would kind of give people this real structure and everything else and people go, Oh, I don't know if I want to, because I need to know what questions you're going to ask me. I'm like, It's a conversation, it's a chat, and I don't know, I'm just gonna see what you, you have to say. And then basically take it from there a bit like what your approach is. We're so similar. Um, and the amount of people that go, oh, oh, I need to know. I need to know. And like, they're so shy and they're so nervous and everything else, and then they're like, oh, I really love that. I really enjoyed that be, and it's because it's so relaxed and so chilled. And I think that, again, possibly, you know, it's different for every neurodivergent person, but it's feeling comfortable and it's known about how we feel comfortable and we want others to feel comfortable too.

Alexis: 6:54

Yeah, I think that's, that is a good point, I think, is that I do know a huge amount of people struggle, not just neurodivergent people either, people struggle with live video, doing podcasts, that kind of thing, putting themselves out there in that way, because there is a lot of Or they feel there is a lot of pressure. They feel that they're likely to misspeak or misrepresent themselves or say the wrong thing. Those, those on audio, I put quotes around that. Um, so. There is a huge amount of, of pressure, and I, some of it is coming from an, internally, I'm sure it is, and I think some is coming from maybe them listening to big podcasts, where everything is fancy schmancy, and, and seems like it all goes smoothly all the time, and blah blah blah. But actually, finding people who you feel comfortable to talk to Can make it so much easier to do a podcast or do a live video or things like that. So I do think it's really helpful to connect with people who you get on with because that gives you essentially a safe space to try those things.

Louisa: 8:22

Yeah

Alexis: 8:22

and maybe at some point you do get to a point where you're like, yeah, I could totally do this big podcast. But if you don't that's also fine. But you're allowed to take baby steps with, like, people who are nice. Not that big podcasters are not nice. I'm sure they're wonderful.

Louisa: 8:42

But it's true though, isn't it? It's about... It's about finding that path for you that is ready to push those boundaries, challenge yourself, and take those next steps. And yes, it's scary. And yes, at the start of my business journey, if you'd have said I'd be going live on LinkedIn every week, I'd be like, hell no. But you kind of build up to it slowly and you start doing what works for you. When it came to me first recording my first video for social media, oh my goodness, it was terrible. You know, and, and I'm not saying I'm any better now, but I just don't really care. Like I just talk, you know, I'm not trying to create anything fancy or anything like that. What you get is what you see is me. Simple. And I think that's often where people kind of start to get inside their own heads is when they start to overthink it about, Oh, I must look a certain way. I must have my room set up in a certain way. Oh, my backdrop's not quite right. Oh, this isn't quite right. And it's not important. People actually just want to hear what you have to say.

Alexis: 9:49

Yeah, that's true. A lot of the people I work with, Really struggle with video, like, but they're just like, I don't want to do video. Some of that is because I hate doing video. Like, so I definitely attract people who are also like, Oh, you hate video, you're not going to make me do video. And I'm like, that's not quite what I said. Um, but the success stories I see with video always, I have found, come from when somebody is like, I don't want to do video. I don't want to do video. And I'll, they'll be like, okay, they come up to like a do it together session that I run or something like that and they're like, oh, I have this idea for a post, you know, I'm going to write that out today. And I'm like, why don't you, that would make sense as a video.

Louisa: 10:29

Yeah.

Alexis: 10:30

And they start with the like, oh, well, I don't know what I'm doing. And I'm just like, pull your phone out and just say what you're going to type. That's it. Just do that. You don't have to post it. Don't think about whether you're posting it or not. Don't think just, just try it. If you hate it, you don't have to post it, it's fine. And so many of them do it, having taken that pressure off, and being like, okay, I'll just hit record and say what I was gonna type. And then they post it and they're like, God, that was so much easier than I thought it was.

Louisa: 11:05

But it's so true. And something that I've started doing. Um, so I, last summer I started a TikTok account for business, but I, I'm nota TikToker, I, as in, I don't really use it at all, but I was like, right, I want to start using it because I want to start creating more video content and kind of just get back into that habit because I'll be in the habit. Then I'll lose, get outta the zone a bit and then I won't do it for flipping ages and then I'll get back to it and so on and so forth. So, but Right. I did, if I create a business TikTok account, I don't care if anyone follows me or not, it's more for my benefit. And I'm going to record one video a day or post one video a day. Um, and I did that for about six weeks and then something happened and I attracted the completely wrong crowd. So it put me off using it. I went back to it recently and my approach is now that I literally just plonk myself somewhere. I don't really think about where I'm sitting on my backdrop or anything like that. And I start the video by saying So I've done it like a little series on autism and me and then kind of going into like different aspects of it and just my story and sometimes talking about my little dude because he's also autistic and but like autism and me Eye contact, da dah, dah, dah. And it's like I'm asking myself the question and then I'm just talking to it. So it's almost like I'm thinking someone's asked me this question, so I'm answering it, but I'm saying it at the start, and then people know what it's about. And I think that's made a real difference to me. And I think that for other people, if you almost think that someone's asked you that question and you use that and you go. Um, yep. So, uh, creating video, how do I start? Well, this is what I do. And it just feels like it flows naturally rather than going, I create video because, and then you feel like, Oh my goodness, what am I going to say next? What am I going to say next? Whereas if you want me to ask yourself that question and then you're answering it, it feels more natural and less forced. If that makes sense.

Alexis: 13:02

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And I think actually when, when I, uh, decided I was gonna start the podcast. I, I, like I say, I hate doing video and I hate just, like, talking to, to nobody. So, the first two seasons of the podcast were only interviews. They were only like chats with guests.'cause I was like, huh, this is a way for me to do a podcast and I just get to chat to cool people., this sounds fun. Um, spoilers. It was fun. It was a lot of fun. But I have started, uh, more recently doing like individual shorter videos where I'm just like, essentially pick a topic.

Louisa: 13:51

Yeah.

Alexis: 13:51

That is coming up and, and ramble. about it, basically. Um, so I think another tip I would have for people who are like, I don't want to do video, is see if you can grab a friend to do it with you. Like it doesn't have to be like a colleague or somebody big in the industry, like grab a friend and just chat. Because some of it is also getting over, like you said, getting out of your head with it and, and It becoming just like, oh, it's not, it's not as bad and people don't care as much as I think they're going to about what's behind me or if I stumble over my words or whatever. So yeah, like grab a, grab a friend, you know, just do, do a little, little Instagram live, you know, hop on LinkedIn live. Do a pre recorded something. Just, you know, enlist, enlist your community to help.

Louisa: 14:47

That's what I've done. Like, so with my LinkedIn Live, I've been doing it for just over a year now. I don't ever go live on my own. No way. I only ever have a guest or like, three guests join me. Um, and it's a topic that's either business related or more personal related, such as autism or chronic illnesses. Or today we've got menopause, belly fat and hormones. Now, or sorry, my mindset, belly fat and hormones, you know, it's, it's just the most random list of topics. And But that's what it's about, you know, it's about creating those conversations and having someone to chat with so that it feels less daunting because the idea of going live on LinkedIn, which is my main platform by myself, no, because I know that I'll just be sitting there going, uh, and also I used to have a Facebook group and I'd go live and when people don't actually engage, it's really hard work. You know, you feel like you're just talking to yourself and. At least if you've got someone with you. If no one watches or engages, it doesn't matter because you're just having a chat. Yeah, exactly.

Alexis: 15:58

And the other thing is you, you can also then reuse that content, which is amazing. I'm all about the repurposing of content. So even if nobody turns up, like you can post it somewhere else, you can cut it down into smaller things. You can use a transcript as a blog post or social media, but like, oh, so many options. It was never a waste.

Louisa: 16:21

And I mean, who doesn't want to make their life easier, right?

Alexis: 16:23

Exactly. Exactly.. You said LinkedIn was your main platform. I know a lot of people who have a lot of problems with LinkedIn. How and why did you decide to make LinkedIn your main platform?

Louisa: 16:39

I find it so easy, like compared to other platforms, I find it really, really easy. So I mean, admittedly, I joined LinkedIn in 2007, maybe. So then I used it in lots of different ways before I had my own business. Um, so I used it for like head hunting people, for growing a company page, for, um, just talking about lots of different stuff and also just connecting people, um, so I had their testimonials. Um, and then when I launched my own business, It just felt like the natural option because I don't think I really used Instagram that much for personal reasons. Um, Facebook, I've never really liked that much. Um, but LinkedIn, you can talk about anything and everything. Um, and you can connect with people so much easier. Whereas I find that on Instagram. It's basically the people pretty much that you follow are random people and it's harder to kind of start those conversations within a post, like within the comments of a post. Whereas over on LinkedIn, someone posts something and it's easy to kind of see if there's a second connection or whatnot and you can just get involved in the conversation, you can make a lot of fun, you can post about business or non business stuff. Like I mentioned, I think my little dude earlier, You know, I've created various different posts and spoken about my autism journey with him, um, and the struggles that he has and coming back to wanting to help people. That's been really good and people like will say to me, how's your little dude? It's almost like I've created this brand. I don't say his name, but I've created a brand on the little dude. And it's quite nice because it just creates those conversations. Um, you can kind of get to know people in the messages, but not in like a salesy spammy way. It's just about connecting with people in a, a nice way and building up those relationships in a way that feels different from the other platforms. So as much as I'll kind of have a bit of a presence on Instagram, I find it's, and there's people I've got to know. I find it much harder to kind of connect with people in the same way because it's about being on at the same time or they're not seeing their content or having to go to look for it and comments. It's not as easy to have those conversations, I don't think, with other people. At least that's my experience. I don't know about yours.

Alexis: 19:02

Yeah, no, I would agree. Actually. I would agree. And I think most of the pushback I get from LinkedIn when I suggest LinkedIn is that it's still LinkedIn has a PR problem. That's the issue.

Louisa: 19:13

Well, have you seen LinkedIn on TikTok?

Alexis: 19:17

Oh, I don't know.

Louisa: 19:18

LinkedIn on TikTok, you would think it was a different platform. Like sometimes they do like little skits kind of thing, like these little funny mock up things. It's a completely different promotion of LinkedIn on TikTok. It's like LinkedIn UK, I think it is. It's so different. It's got a very, very different vibe, but I agree, it's got the wrong rep.

Alexis: 19:44

Yeah, for sure, because a lot of people are surprised at the content that I post on LinkedIn, and the content that does well on LinkedIn, and there is Now, I say this about every platform, because it is true of every platform. There, like, everybody Like every group is on every platform. You just have to find them. And there is a huge like neurodivergent community on LinkedIn. There is a huge ethical business community on LinkedIn. There are a lot of people on there who are not like, suit, capitalism, yay, men, people, you know, like, they're not in boardrooms. They're not working 50 hours a week, or whatever, like, there are people who are on there, just, just like you. Um, and you just have to find them. And the, the benefit to social media algorithms, everybody hates the algorithms, they're not all bad, but anyway. But one of the benefits is... Once you find one person, and start engaging with them, because they're your kind of person, suddenly the algorithm is like, look at all these other people, like, who you might be interested in! So, once you find that one person, you can then quite quickly create, and curate your feed, so that it is filled with people who you're like, actually inspired by, or, who certainly you can look at and be like, Oh yeah, yeah, that made me think. That's relevant to my life. You know, this isn't actually like... I was in this five hour meeting and signed a 50 billion contract. Like, you know, that's not everything that is on LinkedIn. There is a lot of variety on the platform. Um, and it would, it would be nice to, sorry.

Louisa: 21:34

No, sorry, go on.

Alexis: 21:36

I was just gonna say, it'd be nice to see even more people. Join, uh, LinkedIn for that.

Louisa: 21:40

Do you ever use the hashtags on LinkedIn? So Actually Autistic is a brilliant hashtag to follow. And the thing is, I hear people say, are, hashtags worth it and all the rest of it. But actually I follow actually autistic. And so I'll see content relating to that in my feed, which is quite nice because as you say, you get to know of different people and you get to read about their experiences and connect with them in a different way. And something I always hear is that like product based businesses. from like small business owners don't belong on LinkedIn and I'm like actually you'd be shocked like there's a huge creative community over on LinkedIn and what makes it even more exciting for those creative businesses is they'll stand out more than they will in the likes of Instagram and Facebook because people want to see refreshing, I want to see you know cool stuff, like I see artists posting their stuff on LinkedIn and they do really, really well because it stands out from the crowd and people go, yeah, but there isn't a market. I'm like, okay, so from all these people on LinkedIn, are you telling me they don't have birthdays, Christmases, celebrations, uh, anything else that they need to buy gifts for? They've moved house, they're doing this, they're redecorating, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Are you telling me they're not going to be buying stuff? Hello, you know, you've got this amazing opportunity to really stand out, whether it's jewelry, books, whatever it is that you're selling, do it on LinkedIn because a lot of the other platforms are so saturated. If you look on, like if I go on Instagram and I look at products, it's just. Full and full and full of the same kind of products and it's hard to kind of pick stuff out unless it appears on my sponsored ad or something for chocolate brownies. Um, you know, it's harder for them to stand out. Whereas on LinkedIn, you've got this amazing opportunity rant over.

Alexis: 23:33

I totally agree though, because there is, and I think again, this comes back to that sort of PR issue they have of like, well, people only go on LinkedIn. To talk about work and to, like, read about work. They only use LinkedIn to find jobs. They only use LinkedIn Monday to Friday. There's nobody ever on LinkedIn at the weekends. And I'm like, you know, I feel like there's a lot of people who have flexible working. And, and who, you know, I just feel like that's probably not true.

Louisa: 24:07

But what's also quite interesting as well with LinkedIn is that people don't like to sell on LinkedIn. And that's what I find really interesting and you know, yes, it's about social styling, it's about building relationships, but as I posted on TikTok this morning, you're in danger of becoming the world's best kept secret because if you're just giving value, value, value, commenting, commenting, commenting, people don't want to have to go click on a button, find your website, go all the way up to your website, find where they need to go, find, oh, that's a waste of time. They just want to know if they see something that pops up in their feed and says, hey, this is going to change my life, whatever, um, And that speaks to them at that right time, even more likely to sell rather than saying go to my website, you know, and it's just something that people don't do and it really annoys me. And it's the same with like, as you say, the weekend post, something I used to always say is that if you think about the parents that are in the supermarket, waiting to get served, watching their child at football practice, whatever that might be, and they're not really paying attention to little, Billy playing football because they're on the phone and they're on LinkedIn and they're chatting, you know It's a great time to post that non business content as well because I posted one about how I took the little dude to the fire station at the weekend like a local autism charity and Just about different things to him And like, the level of engagement was huge. I think it's blowing everything else out of the park, you know, because the algorithms are just rubbish at the moment. But, you know, it just goes to show that actually personal stuff and storytelling is really important on LinkedIn as well. And it's about building that whole bigger picture, you know, let's focus on what, why you're posting stuff, what it means, the relevance and everything else. But yeah, there's so much opportunity on LinkedIn. And like you say, people just. And stay away because they're not sure

Alexis: 26:04

Do you think this and this is just a random thought I'm having right now welcome to my brain. Do you think some of the reason a lot of neurodivergent people stay away from it is because there is this perception because of the business front of it that there are additional social rules that they maybe aren't familiar with. That they're like, I feel like it's gonna be easier to mess up on LinkedIn. Especially because of we so see so many memes and stuff about, like, LinkedIn, this isn't Facebook, and stuff like that. Do you think that is giving people the wrong impression and and stressing people out to think like... Oh no, this is just an extra extra layer of like social stuff I really can't deal with.

Louisa: 27:01

I think it's the same whether you're neurodiverse or not. I think that people just are kind of feeling overwhelmed by social media and I don't know what to expect from it so it's almost that unknown and so until they start to connect with the right people, as you were saying earlier, then that's what makes a big difference. So like, you know, I don't see that often people say I know the stuff you're talking about, but I don't see that stuff that often saying this is not Facebook anymore. I think that people have moved on quite a bit from that. I think you still get a lot of that, but I think since LinkedIn made it much more of a creative platform, I think the vibe of it has changed a lot. Yes, it's had a bit of an influx of influencers, which in my opinion has kind of spoiled it a little bit because it's taken it away from every day normal person and normal lives and you know everything else, but I think when you start to get your head around it and you understand how to use it properly in a way that works for you and You don't feel the pressure and you think I don't care. I'm doing this for me. And I know what my goals Or my vision for why I want to use this is, and you're connected with the right people, you're posting the right content. I think that's what makes a difference. I think it's when people just don't know, it can, I guess it comes back to that. When you don't know, and you are someone that needs to know, that's where it gets a lot harder.

Alexis: 28:23

Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah.

Louisa: 28:26

I mean, I know someone that's autistic on LinkedIn and he really struggles with LinkedIn. Um, but then I think it's also because of everything else that he's got going on in terms of mental health and all that sort of stuff, and knowing how to use the platform and possibly overthinking it a little bit. And then also, and I think this applies to every single platform. You kind of start to listen to what every person says because you become obsessive with it and you want to do, and you think, right, I should be posting this, I should be doing this, I should be doing X, Y, Z. When actually, keep it simple, because as soon as you start to get obsessive with it and wanting to watch every YouTube video or read the latest post by this person that's an influencer on LinkedIn and stuff like that, it gets overwhelming. And then that's where you are going to struggle. Whereas, keep it simple. Don't overthink it, and think about what works for you, the way that you think, the way you approach other things in your life, and take that similar approach.

Alexis: 29:30

Yeah, I totally agree. One of the things that I say a lot is like, all the people who are experts in, there was quotes around that, by the way, again, for audio people, um, who are experts in LinkedIn or whatever platform. They're not experts in your brain, or your business, or your audience.

Louisa: 29:51

Exactly.

Alexis: 29:51

You are the expert in those things. And just because somebody managed to get x amount of LinkedIn followers, uh, doing this seven step process that you can buy for £1,500 , like, does not mean it will work for you. If you're looking for the exact same audience, maybe it will. But if you're looking for a different audience, it's really unlikely. Because what they want is different. And you have to tailor it to your audience. And some of that is gonna mean tailoring it to you so you can actually do it. So yeah, I, that, that's one of my rants all the time.

Louisa: 30:34

Well, I don't, like, at the start of my LinkedIn headline, it says I do things differently. And it's because I, I've never, and I dunno about you, but I've never wanted to be like everybody else. I've always like, if the crowd say we're gonna do this, I kind of wanna do the opposite. Um, and it's because I don't. And I don't know why that is, but I just don't want to be seen like everybody else and I don't want to do things every the way that everyone else does it. I want to do things my way and be innovative and use my brain in the way that it's meant to be used, you know, because I am very much left and right brained. And why can't we stand out and be known for thinking differently and being our own unique selves as opposed to just. Taking that cookie, uh, cookie cut, I can't even speak, cookie cutter approach, um, just to be like everyone else because actually, you're going to be a bit like a wallflower, aren't you? Whereas when you're uniquely you and you're proud to be you, um, that's kind of often my rant is that's what's going to make a difference and that's why you're going to connect with people and why you become memorable rather than just being the same as everybody else.

Alexis: 31:50

Yeah, I totally agree. I really do. Yeah. Okay. I want to bring this round to TikTok now. Yeah. Because regular listeners will know I, I hate TikTok. I hate short form video, just generally. It's not my bag. I'm a video essay person.

Louisa: 32:07

Yeah.

Alexis: 32:08

Okay. I want to sit down and watch like two and a half hours on the same topic. I don't want your 30 seconds of chat. I'm sorry. I also find, especially TikTok. To be very, like, sensory overwhelming because it's immediately, like, moving stuff and noise and nowhere I go makes it stop unless I leave the app. I don't do very well with TikTok. I am interested as to, like, your experiences with it and how you've made TikTok work for you.

Louisa: 32:51

So, um, for starters, I hate videos. I like, and the video experts are going to hate me now, but I hate videos where it's like, um, People aren't going to see this, but, yes, so I'm talking over here, and then I'm going to talk over here, and then I'm going to switch here, and then I'm going to stand there, and then I'm going to sit down, and then I'm going to do this. Anything where it's kind of like, oh, you know, you want to keep your audience captivated by moving lots. Uh, no, I hate that. I just want to hear someone sitting down, talking, being normal, whatever normal means. But, you know, I just want those kind of videos. And to be quite honest, I don't really watch a lot on TikTok. I kind of just, I see some stuff and I'm like, okay, I've learned stuff from TikTok. So I've learned about different apps that I've never heard of before. I've actually been quite interested. Um, but most of the time I don't spend a great deal of time. I'm more of a, I post, I run. Bye bye. So that's it. So that's my, and like I said, and it could just be down to the fact that I'm using TikTok to kind of get me back into the habit of creating video again. Um, so I think I'm on like day 26, 27 of posting maybe, and my videos vary from probably about 40 seconds to probably about two minutes. But I try to make them like a series. So like I said before, it's like autism and me and it goes into different topics. So you could quite easily just click, click, click, click, click to kind of find out more. Um, or like I've done like a business owners, dot, dot, dot. Um, but it's more for my benefit as opposed to really trying to build those relationships for anyone else. People watch them. Amazing. People get value. Great. If people buy from me, well, I don't know what they'll think they're buying from me because I haven't advertised anything. Ironically, I spoke about selling today and I'm thinking, I never sell anything on TikTok, but it's not my reason for using it, you know? So for me, I kind of dabble a little bit. There's a couple of other people I know that are doing something similar where they're just using it to try and get in the habit of video creation. But yeah, most of the time I don't. I think my feed consists of people talking about Um, what is that like new apps they've come across, maybe a bit of like strategy potentially. Um, there's a clinical psychologist that I follow. So again, it comes back to that just being curious about the mind stuff. Um, but otherwise I don't really use it. Like most people do.

Alexis: 35:20

Yeah, that's fair. That's what I think. Cause I have, I have tried TikTok and I think I would probably give it another whirl for like post and run. Yeah. But I, I, cause a lot of my friends are on TikTok. Um, interestingly, a lot of my friends have ADHD. I'm not, I'm not saying the two things are connected, but, um, and so I find, when I have the app on my phone, I get constant notifications because people know that I have the app, and so they send me stuff, and I'm like, Do I have to watch this? Can you give me, like, a text rundown? What's it called? Do they have a YouTube channel where they put out long form content on this same topic?

Louisa: 36:08

The thing is, though, it's known what works for you, isn't it? And I think for me, like, I mean, I shared on LinkedIn, actually, the other day about my autism and me series, but I don't really push it at all. I guess it depends on what your purpose is, like anything, isn't it? What's your purpose of using the platform? And I view it as, I record video content in my phone, so native video content, and then I can upload it to TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, wherever I want. LinkedIn, obviously. Um, and it's ready there for when I can't think about what to talk about, quite honestly.

Alexis: 36:47

That's an excellent tip.

Louisa: 36:50

It's called the lazy approach.

Alexis: 36:54

It's efficient.

Louisa: 36:55

Yes. It's called doing the least amount of work for maximum output.

Alexis: 37:03

Yeah. Yeah. I am all about that life. Yeah, yeah.

Louisa: 37:09

So, I'd be curious to know, when have you, because obviously we're very new to Connection, so what's your neurodiversity story?

Alexis: 37:21

Oh, oh, it's long and exciting.

Louisa: 37:25

Is it something that you've always known? Is it a more recent diagnosis? Is it, like, where does it stem from? Because for me, I only found out that I was autistic. in December at the age of 43. Um, and had it not been for my child, I'd have never even considered it, but so much makes sense now.

Alexis: 37:48

For me, I, I'm diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and I've been quote in the system for well, since I was about 11, um, for various brain stuff, et cetera, um, and basically as I turned 18, they diagnosed me with BPD, um, but I'm 35 for context, there wasn't really a lot about women with autism back then, it was a boy thing, um, and so I assumed that that was it. And I have always, like, struggled with social stuff, and struggled with sensory stuff, and there was a lot of stuff that people put down to social anxiety, general anxiety, depression, um, BPD, and now I look back, I'm like, yeah, this would easily have all been, uh, explained by just like one, one thing, but okay. Um, but it wasn't, there was a period about five or six years ago, I think, where, because I used to spend a lot of time in, um, like, BPD support spaces. and a huge proportion of the women who were diagnosed with BPD got re diagnosed with autism, because they'd been misdiagnosed previously. And I looked into it at the time, And I started, um, following some, like, autistic influencers and and get trying to get into those communities. And I had a really bad experience where I posted on somebody's, uh, YouTube video sharing, like, my experience, and I happen to mention that my diagnosis is BPD, but I I think actually I've been misdiagnosed. And I got a lot of very mean comments.

Louisa: 40:00

Wow.

Alexis: 40:00

Um, and so I just backed off because I was like, well, frankly, Even if I am autistic, I don't really want to be associated with you people. And then, um, recently, about a year and a half ago, I moved to, uh, Wales and a lot of my friends are autistic. And one of them happened to say to me, I wouldn't normally like do this because it's your journey. Um, but have you thought you might be autistic? And, and I was like, I mean, I had thought, but I, you know, I told them the situation. Um, and they were like, I mean, cause you seem quite autistic. And I mentioned it to another autistic friend who went, I mean, yeah, yeah, I definitely think, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I mentioned it to a friend who's also a business coach, also autistic. Who said, Oh, I thought you already knew. It's like, I feel like I didn't get the memo everybody else got. Um, so I haven't gone for an official diagnosis largely because it will not change my life. I work for myself anyway. I like, it's not going to change my life. It's too much stress, frankly. Um, I've done some of the, like, autism tests online, and it's like, Yeah, you're, yep! Yep! And I'm like, oh god, yeah, okay! Fair enough, yeah. Um, but I realised that actually... When I, when I started realising that, and I started looking for like, adjustments that a lot of people make to function easier with autism and stuff, there were adjustments I'd already made, I just hadn't realised that that was the, quote, problem.

Louisa: 41:59

Yeah.

Alexis: 42:00

I'd made those adjustments because I had issues with those things. Yeah. Yeah. I've just been like, well, you know, maybe it's a BPD thing. I don't know. Um, so that's my experience. It's been, it's been a, it's been a road. It's been a road.

Louisa: 42:16

Thing is though, I think it's so tricky as well, isn't it? And as you say, like way back when. it wasn't a thing that even was talked about, you know, I don't have anything to do with my brother, but without a shadow of a doubt, he's older, he's older, but he would be autistic. Um, but his traits would be a stronger, I don't know what the word to use, but stronger than mine probably. Um, and I think that, you know, as women, um, We often know that we get masked, and we kind of get, it doesn't get picked up on. And so for me, like, I sometimes call myself an autistic fraud, because I haven't had anxieties, but then that's the way that my brain's wired, in the fact that I'm able to kind of get emotions. If I don't like something, I stick them in a box, I throw away the key, I move on. Now, people, some people say to me, that's amazing, and that they wish they could do that, but actually, I don't know if that's a great thing or not. because I don't process it in the same way as a neurotypical person would or other autistic people would. And I think that, you know, for my quirks, like I was always told I was quirky growing up. Um, and That was always a word that was used to describe me. She's quirky. And it's like, I was fine with that. I have no issues with being quirky. Because going back to what we were saying earlier, you know, I always wanted to, I always enjoyed being different. I didn't want to be like everybody else. I had my brain and I can use it. Um, but when I think back to my childhood and I look at my little dude, the reason that he's thriving at school. academically, it's because I get it and because I think that had I've had the right support and the right understanding, I did alright at school, I went to uni and everything else, but it was only on stuff that I had an interest in that kind of stuck because I have got that photographic memory and so with the way that I support and I help him. It's based on my own experiences, um, from a like eating perspective and stuff like that. I realized I have got sensory processing issues, you know, I'm not just that fussy child that I was led to believe and given grief for. And even now, like I'm 44, my mum will still give me grief about food. I'm like, it's a texture thing, you know, and I never realized it was a texture thing. But my little dude's the same, and like, he's got this really strong pain threshold. So have I! And you start to realize there's all these synchronicities between the two of us, and it just makes so much sense now. Like, the way that I think, the way that I work, the way that I do things. Um, but had it not been for him, I'd have never even thought about it. And it just makes sense, and I don't think other people would have thought about it, but I can pick up, like, there's a friend of mine, and I said to her last year, I was like, you're autistic, because of her trait. And it's interesting, I think, once you, once you start to understand the huge, crazy spectrum of autism, you start to pick up on traits from other people and like their anxieties or, or their quirks or those little special interests or the way they react to certain things and the way they do things. And I think that's quite interesting as well, how you find When you think about it a little bit more that you're kind of attracted to similar people like a lot of my friends I kind of look at and they don't have diagnosed a diagnosis but I kind of think there's quite a few traits there that I'm recognizing in you you know and it just makes a lot of sense and it's just crazy that we kind of get to a certain age and then start to realize oh this could be this or this could be that and this is why I kind of get obsessive about this or that.

Alexis: 46:10

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Because I, like I say, when I look back now, there's so many things that I'm just like, yeah. Yeah, I feel like if I was growing up now, it would have been picked up. Um, because like, when I was, when I first, uh, like, moved in to my own place, I, all of the mugs were, like, lined up. Yeah, and they were, they had specific places. They had to be specific mugs and specific rows. They were, everything was... lined up had to be in the right place and it's it's this attitude of like, oh, yeah That's weird and obsessive and quirky and what have you and it's like I I thought like I I would have cried like if Things got moved and I was just like I can't I can't I can't and I have like a really visceral memory of um, I think it's my one of my birthday parties as a child like in primary school. We went to Waterworld Which is like an indoor water park thing. And, um, I have this memory of hiding in, like, I think it was the wave pool. And I kept going under the water for as long as I could because it was so loud. It was so loud and I just wanted to be under the water where it was quieter.

Louisa: 47:23

Yeah.

Alexis: 47:26

There is so much stuff now that I look back at. Yeah, the signs were there.

Louisa: 47:34

See, I don't know if I... Before I was back to like school days, I don't think people pick it up on me.

Alexis: 47:42

Really?

Louisa: 47:43

Yeah, and I think because of, not because I'm intentionally masking, because I don't think I do, but I think, like, my mum used to always say I'm so pedantic. And, like, people say, oh, you always seem to want to be right, and it's like, well, no, it's not so much that I'm a person that goes, I'm always right, I'm not, but if I know something is correct, factually correct, then it's right, right? I'm not just doing it to prove a point. If it's factually correct, it's correct.

Alexis: 48:14

I'm exactly the same.

Louisa: 48:17

But it's because of that that you get cold, you're so pedantic about, like, little things, and it's like. I'm really not. I think it's just that. If that's the way it is, that's the way it is, you know. Who's right and who's wrong, kind of thing. And, and I think it's because of that. And I, I think because of my quirks are probably a lot more subtle to me, that that's why it's not, it wouldn't have been picked up on. Whereas with a little dude, his, um, his case went to panel twice. So once when he was at nursery, he's only, he'll be seven in September. Um, so once when he was at nursery, and once when he was at, started primary school, um, in reception year, and it got rejected. And I fought and I fought for it. And. Eventually we saw the main paediatrician in person, and she immediately diagnosed him with autism. And I think for him, yes, it is a lot more obvious. The people at school and everywhere else obviously didn't see that, but never mind. That's a whole different story. Um, but I think there are, unfortunately, there are some, so many people that do go undiagnosed because they don't realise.. And it's like, I used to say to people, I'd film like a video call and I'm like, I'd look away. And I'm like, I'm just looking away because I'm thinking. And it wasn't, and that was true, but again it comes back to that autistic kind of eye contact, and yes I can give eye contact, but I have to really subconsciously think about it, you know, and make that kind of real effort, whereas now I'm like, it doesn't matter if I look around the room. If I don't kind of look at someone all the time, that's absolutely fine. Whereas because you always, and when you get, when you're a child, it's like, you've got to look at someone, you've got to look all the rest of that, that you kind of feel conditioned that that's what you must do. And so I think for me, it's been such a eye opener, but now I use it all. to my strengths of being very much, you know, I'm very creative in my thinking but I'm also very strategic and analytical and pragmatic and it's knowing that although I've always kind of said I'm very left and right brain but it's knowing that actually it's because of the way my brain's wired and actually it's quite cool to kind of be able to kind of do things like that whereas before you sort of think am I really like that? Am I? Am I? Am I? So it just, yeah, I think for me it's just made so much more sense of the world. Yeah.

Alexis: 50:45

Yeah, I agree. I said to somebody when, uh, when I was sort of being like, oh no, I think, I think I am autistic. I was like, it hasn't changed anything, but it has applied context to everything. And it's, it's a really weird, like, process to go through where you're like, Nothing has changed, I haven't changed, and I don't, I'm not one of these people who's like, Oh, I wish I'd been picked up in school, like, Oh, my life would have been like that, this is what, this is what I got, like, um, but it, it is weird to have a lot of your life, like, recontextualized and kind of have to look at all that stuff and be like, Oh yeah, yeah, okay, okay, okay, because it's also given me a lot of compassion for myself.

Louisa: 51:40

Yeah

Alexis: 51:41

in times where maybe previously I was like, oh, why couldn't I just have done this? Why why did I have to have that reaction blah blah blah blah and now i'm like, oh no, no, it's okay That makes sense.

Louisa: 51:53

It's really interesting actually saying about the context. So I got diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome back 2008 I think it was and before that Um, it had taken a long time, so I'd had like, um, really bad glandular fever when I was 16, 17 years old, and I was always, always tired, always really struggling, went to uni, I was told it was just because I was a student, obviously, um, and then I got diagnosed with an underactive thyroid, then a B12 deficiency, and finally the chronic fatigue syndrome, so I'm always, always tired, and I got given CBT, and it was that thing that Once I understood, and I think this is what makes sense with the autism now, I don't, I'm happy to have a label applied to me. It doesn't bother me at all because for me, I need to understand and I need to understand the reasons and everything else. And then I'll do like so much research and I'll understand it, not in an obsessive way as such, but just so I can understand, okay. Why is this da da da da da and connecting all those dots? So like, you know, I had a history of miscarriages and kind of understanding about all of that and the process and da da da da da and, and I think for me, well, it's stuff that doesn't make sense. That's when I get really frustrated or when I don't know the answers, I get so annoyed and so frustrated. And I think that all feeds into the autism side of things and needing that context and needing that understanding for me to be able to process and to make those decisions. because I am such a subconscious reflector. So although it's not an intentional thing that something's playing on my mind, but it's the way that my head's thinking and subconsciously reflecting on everything I do and the decisions I make and the way the behaviors and everything else and how it all comes together. And so, yeah, context is. Massive.

Alexis: 53:47

Yeah. Yeah, it really is. Before we wrap up, I have a, a selfish question, although I'm going to, I'm going to pretend that it, it will be useful for other people as well, but you said you don't really mask now.

Louisa: 54:01

Yeah.

Alexis: 54:01

Has that always been true? Or do you have tips for people who are struggling to unmask?

Louisa: 54:08

You know, I, so I remember, um, being. At a workplace and my colleagues had all done an internal NLP course and I wasn't doing it. And they came out, and they said that, oh, from what they'd heard, it was clear that I was half Dutch, because I was very abrupt, and I was very, just say it as it is. Now, I wasn't abrupt like in a horrid kind of way, but I just kind of, maybe not the, polite British kind of way. Um, why say a thousand words when you can say ten, for example. And it really kind of stuck at me. Now, I think that the reason I was probably like that was because of the autism now, because being direct, right? Um, And because of the comment that was made, I think then I potentially started to mask and being very much drew within myself because I was conscious about the way that I spoke to people because, as I say, it was never done in a hurtful, malicious kind of way. I would just say it as it was as opposed to tending something else. Um, so I think that probably more so as I got older, and started working for myself, I started to think that I didn't have to comply to the rules because I think I became very rule driven. Again, the autism side of things, if it makes sense. Um, and then I started to realize that actually the clients I was working with really liked the fact. I was honest and I would tell them and give them my opinion. I'd do it in a nice way. I'd be like, look, I can't help it. I have to say what I think. And you can either take that advice or you can ditch it. But I'm saying this from a place of being helpful. Um, and I would do it in a constructive kind of way, or sometimes someone say, what would you think of this? I was like, But I think over time I started to be the real me and I don't know if that is an age thing or not, but apart from that I don't think I have maths. I haven't had anxieties like most people and but I think that's just because of, like I said earlier, the way that my brain functions. I am, you know, I remember doing a strength finders, um, personality thing, uh, quite a while ago. And one of my top strengths is empathy. So I can relate and I have the empathy for other people. But in terms of my own situations, I can just turn it off. So, um. I don't know if that really answers the question, um, but I think it's just, yeah, the way my brain functions, I haven't needed to mask as such apart from the instance where I became much more paranoid almost about my ways.

Alexis: 57:16

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And it's nice that you haven't, like, outside of that, that you haven't had that experience. I think there's, there's things like sitting, sitting weirdly, that's such a weird autism trait, but there we go. Sitting weirdly, I'm like moving a lot.

Louisa: 57:33

I talk a lot with my hands.

Alexis: 57:35

Yeah, yeah, I, I, I talk a lot with my hands. Um, people at school used to talk about it. It's like, oh, she's talking, move, move out the way, clear a, clear a space. But I really struggle to like sit still.

Louisa: 57:48

Yeah, like I, I often fidget and stuff. But I didn't really. I don't know, I don't, I don't overthink about it. I guess I'm not an overthinker, again. I think that in some of my autistic traits, I've got some of the positive ones, if that makes sense. If there's like a negative and a positive, I don't have the anxieties, my little dude does. I, yes, I fidget and everything else, but I'm not someone that then has huge meltdowns either. I've never had that. I, so I fight. I find it quite hard in different ways to other autistic people and think, oh, I should maybe be reacting like this or like when my dad passed away, you know, I was upset, but I, I couldn't, I couldn't get that same level of emotion because in my head, the pragmatic part of me is like, well, someone's born, they die. When I had my multiple mis multiple miscarriages, you know, it was the norm because yes, I was upset and people going, must have been so heartbroken and obviously took a lot of stress on my body and everything else. But the way that my brain works, it's like, well, that's the norm. That's what happens , you know, and so, I got some of the positive quirks, traits, behaviours, but then also there are ways which I haven't got them.

Alexis: 59:10

Yeah, yeah. It does, it presents differently in everybody. This is like, and this is the thing that is misunderstood a lot, I think, is that it presents Very differently in everybody and it affects people because you still have just natural human fluctuation of personality and, and like what you've been through and natural skill sets and all that kind of thing, which also plays into it. And, and there is, there is this. very strong view of, like, no but autism is this, like, specific set of things. It's like, well, yes and no.

Louisa: 59:47

And this is why I love to talk about it as well, because I think it's so important to give that different perspective. I remember, um, so I'm not a huge prolific poster on Facebook, like my personal account, but I shared that I'd received my autism diagnosis. A couple of people said, like, I went to school for, like, You'll always be the same Louisa. Well, of course I will be! Nothing's ever changed! Like, what do you think's going to happen now? I've got a diagnosis, and... Hello! I'm just this wacky person, I'm just going to do everything so differently now. No, it doesn't work like that.

Alexis: 1:00:19

Yeah, yeah. No, it's very, very misunderstood. Like, I never understand that response, just generally. When people get a diagnosis. I'm like, yeah, you're still the same person. Yes. It's literally just, just an explanation. So I, like, I, it doesn't magically change who I've been. I can't wrap my head around that thought process at all. I really can't.

Louisa: 1:00:45

I know, I know. And also just to add that I only got my diagnosis and went through the process because I knew it would help my little dude. Had it not been from him, would I have gone through the process? Probably not. Um, but because then I could kind of say to him at a younger age, you know, We've both, because I say it's his superpower, which I know some people hate that term and some people don't, but he's six. He was five when he got it. I'm like, you know, it's your superpower and now I've got the same superpower as you. And so that really helps him.

Alexis: 1:01:13

Yeah, that's important.

Louisa: 1:01:16

Absolutely.

Alexis: 1:01:16

Well, it's been very lovely to chat to you.

Louisa: 1:01:19

No, thank you very much for inviting me. It's been a lot of fun.

Alexis: 1:01:22

Thank you for being here.

Louisa: 1:01:25

It's been good.

Alexis: 1:01:27

Where can people find you?

Louisa: 1:01:29

Uh, on LinkedIn. Um, so on LinkedIn, on Instagram, on TikTok, um... Yeah, there's other channels that I don't really post on, um, and then my website, I guess, which is ingeniouscorner. com Um, so the ingenious is because it kind of sums up that way my brain works, I think.

Alexis: 1:01:54

Very good, very good. The links will obviously be in the description and the show notes and various places that... podcasters who know what they're doing put things, which I am definitely one of. Thank you so much.

Louisa: 1:02:14

No, thank you. Genuinely. I really, really appreciate it.

Hawke: 1:02:17

If you want more regular reminders to find your own way to use social media, follow Alexis on your social platform of choice. All the links will be in the show notes. Until next time, be a human.