I got to chat to one of my social media heroes, Tereza Litsa (she/her), about the challenges of social media for non-profits and Lightful's mission to change social for good.
Prepare for some fan-girling moments through this episode of the podcast as we share how all of us can be part of the movement to #ReclaimSocial and make it a force for good.
Tereza Litsa is a social media manager and trainer at Lightful, helping charities improve their social media skills. She’s been working as a social media and content marketing manager for the last 8 years and she is passionate about social media for good and how it can be used in a more impactful way.
She has run the #ReclaimSocial movement for the last 4 years and she is also the host of the Reclaim Social podcast.
She has also won the awards of Digital Woman for Good, Inspiring Communicator, and TechWomen100 and has written for various publications about all things digital.
Get involved in the Reclaim Social movement:
Other things mentioned:
Charities Against Hate: https://charitiesagainsthate.com/
I hang out on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bushnell_cs/
Find me on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SocialMediaForHumans
Join the club to learn more about ethical and effective social media marketing: https://socialmediaforhumans.club/
Voice over by Hawke Wood: https://www.spotlight.com/3490-9081-8844Support the show
[Hawke] Hello and welcome to Social Media for Humans the podcast that empowers you to do social differently. Your host, Alexis Bushnell, and her guests discuss their experience of social media as business owners, users and ultimately humans. With insights and advice to help you find an effective and ethical strategy that works for you. Grab yourself a drink and join the conversation. [Alexis] Hello hello! I am here with wonderful Tereza, would you like to please introduce yourself and tell us who you are and what you do. [Tereza] Yes of course, really, good to be here my name is Teresa Lita. I'm doing social media and marketing at Lightful and I've started doing marketing, I think eight years ago. So obviously social media was quite different eight years ago, we were still focusing on Facebook only and maybe a bit of Twitter but obviously, like things change now and I've worked with many start-ups in the past and three years ago I jumped into the non-profit sector, so kind of like balancing the skills in between talking about buzzwords and trying to focus on impact. - Yeah yeah, And you have done, like you've made amazing waves, if you like, in the sort of social for good sector yeah. [Both talking over each other] - Yeah yeah yeah yeah. - So what what inspiredyou to move into that space? - So it was reallyinteresting because it didn't really plan that and I didn't really know that I see myself in a specific area in industry. So obviously starting with social media you don't have a specific area of expertise, you just work with different clients in many different industries and as you try along different things then you start seeing what works best for you. So after working with a couple of start-ups I really enjoy what I was doing in terms of marketing but I felt like there's something missing, something that I would enjoy even more. And starting a little bit uh trying out a couple of clients that they had in higher education in non-profit sector, I started seeing that there is something more there that I would like to explore. So it just happened with Lightful for looking for a social media manager back then and having the first chat with them it felt like the perfect fit because it had a social media platform for non-profits and obviously the social media manager would play a key role in interacting with non-profits and helping them to onboard, so it felt like a new world opened up and I really enjoyed it really. - Yeah I do, I could relate to that sort of new world opening up because I think when I first got into social media professionally I was sort of of the mindset that like oh I just I just need some work, I just need clients. - Yes, exactly. - And then when I started focusing on like, oh yeah I want to work with people who want to make a difference, who want to use their business positively it was like "wow! look how many businesses there are that want to do this!" there's a whole community of people out there who actually are like yes let's let's do this and so how have you sort of found that? Because you've been working for them for threeyears now. - yeah three and a half years now. - So how has that changed? Because social media even in the past sort of three years has changed pretty dramatically. - Yeah for sure. - So how have you, has that sort of impacted what you do and what the sort of advice and the ways you work with the non-profits? - So that's reallyinteresting also another change jumping in the social good sector, because obviously doing social media in the past from a start-up perspective and more B2B focus, then you have specific metrics, you need to hit those metrics and obviously like everything is more clear and specific and obviously focusing on the objectives. But when I started talking more with non-profits and we started doing more training for them, so on one hand I was managing Lightful social media presence but then you were also interacting with charities and trying to understand how they can be better at digital and social. So then you realize that different world in terms of social good that for them, obviously, it's not just about the numbers you don't just tell them that you need to hit those KPIs and like have those objectives. So it's a different a really different perspective and it was really helpful for me because I realized back then that I was using too many buzzwords and jargon that it didn't really resonate, so when you were talking to them with like a marketing background everyone was just looking at you, when it was face to face, and then I realized I need to adjust my language and like the things we're talking about, because for them it's being able to support those service users and everyone else working with you and being able to tell better stories, it's not just about getting for example the fundraising and the donations, but it's also making sure that they connect with you. So it was yeah, pretty much changing their perspective and trying to see social media from a very different angle. What's the purpose? How do you convince someone to spend more time on socialmedia? - Yeah yeah. I think one of the ways that you have done that as well is through Reclaim Social. - Yeah yeah yeah. - Which has been really amazing andit's something like I have sort of watched a bitlike "wow this is so cool" So what inspired that? - So that was really interesting. That was, I think only a few months ago after joining Lightful so they were officially launching their social media platform for all the charity sector and they were looking for an awareness campaign but not in a sense of selling but more about celebrating the work that charities do in the sector. So it started like very, not having very expectations really, was like oh let's celebrate one day like the use of social media from charities and it went really well because we realised that obviously everyone wants social media to be more positive! Who would have thought that? And then we decided to continue that so instead of just one day a year when we just encourage everyone even beyond the charity sector to use the hashtag #ReclaimSocial and celebrate stories of impact maybe someone who really inspires you on social media or any other use that you think that social media has really helped you personally or professionally. So then we started saying that there is something out there and obviously the last few years so many things happened on the social media and as it becomes more negative I think there are more people who actually crave for that kind of storytelling. - Yeah definitely, definitely and it's something that I have seen thepast sort of year has really shifted the talk fromusers around social media because Whereas beforeit seemed to me to be smaller groups who werelike "we need to change how social media works" - yeah. - Now there seems to be much more of an outcry from most social media users who are just seeing feeds that are very depressing and scary basically. - Yeah that's true especially this year as we spend more time on our phones and our screens and we had to use social media to connect with others that we couldn't really see we also realised that it is very depressing and there's so many stories that we would avoid if we could and as a social media manager, obviously that's another part of it. Like you feel sometimes that you're just spending time on it for too long and then you need to like detox yourself and stay out of it, treat it as a job not just be there 24/7. So there were many reasons I think this year that many people realise that okay we need to do something for social media, we don't want to like stop using it but still there needs to be a way to make more mindful for our side. - yeah, yeah definitely and I think it has been a real sort of two-sided coin on social media because, like you say, people have been desperate to connect with people and it has done a lot of good over the past year for sort of events that have happened and to spread information, whether that be good information or not! But there has definitely been an increase as well in the sort of dark side of it, if you like - yeah yeah - But i think that the sort of the more people have realized that there is, like you have to take control of your own social media usage which is something that I tend to talk about a lot. It's like, you can control to some degree what you see in your feed and sort of coming back to Reclaim Social, like a part of that if you're engaging on those posts which are like here's awesome good news, here's some awesome stuff that's happened, here's a great small business, he's a great charity, you see more of that stuff. - Yeah that's true. - Which shifts the whole, your whole which is nice so i think there issort of something to be said for like taking control of your own social media and being like, "right this is what I want more of and I'm going to actively try and get more of that." - Yeah, that's true and I remember many people were saying that it was so refreshing during Reclaim Social, especially this year, that we didn't realise how much we needed positive stories. so for one day for example if you go on Twitter or Instagram seeing all the positive news on your feed, it felt very strange and really nice, obviously, so it's more like the realisation that we need more of that and as you've said, we need to engage more with such stories to be able to see more on our feeds. - Yeah yeah. So what has sort of come from Reclaim Social for the the charities and the non-profits that you work with? Becauseit started to sort of shout out the awesome things that they're doing so have they seen sort of direct results from it? Has that grown now into more of like awareness and just general sort of sharing of charities and stuff? - Yeah, I think the idea was always to start with the awareness, so we didn't want to set specific objectives and make it more like seem like a practical campaign that you set goals and you review everything because you would lose the fun and the nice side of things, but still working with more charities over the last few years we always had it on part of our training, so more like a bonus way to talk more about storytelling and get them to promote their campaigns and their work. So obviously this year many charities really struggle in terms of income and fundraising so after doing the campaigns at the end of the year and Christmas and all the holidays to raise money then we were saying at the start of February with weekly i'm so sure it might be a good opportunity to just celebrate your work, your team, and run an awareness campaign as part of the day that you just tell the great stories and the things that you're working on so they didn't feel necessarily the pressure that I need to prepare too many things and fields as my own campaign but since it's also trending it's a great opportunity for me to jump on board and talk more about my work. - Yeah yeah and I dothink, I mean for me I would like to see sort of more positive marketing generally across the board because something that really annoys me about sort of the for-profit industry is the marketing of like FOMO - Yes. - And you need this in order to be better because you're not good enough as you are and like just be afraid so that you buy this thing, that kind of stuff really really irritates me. - That's interesting, yeah. - So like I would love to see more sort of positive marketing from the for-profit sector - yeah, for sure. -This is how we can actually enhance your life rather than here's a setup to show you that your life is not good enough as it is, now buy this thing. - Especially rightnow if you think of it like we don't want to hear more of the negative side of things like, I think the advertising right now should focus more on like making you positive and hopeful, like this is a way to convince someone to pay attention, you don't want to hear more negative stories and like remind you where we are. - Yeah that is so true. I do think, I think there has been a shift in sort of what consumers want as well from that that point of view and again I think that comes from the realisations on social media and seeing the the need for positive stories and stuff but I'm, I don't know how you feel but i'm not sure that that sort of push for positivity has reached the upper echelons of business quite yet. I think there is still sort of a view that "well we can run a positive campaign because it's a cute quirky thing." - Yeah yeah exactly. I think it depends where you start. - Yeah yeah, it's it's like yeah this isn't gonna be the whole of a marketing campaign, this is just like this thing that we'll try because you know afew people like it, it's like "oh no!" - it feels likemany brands feel like especially this year with all the changes like they see everyone jumping on board with kind of like the messaging "oh we're all in this together" and they feel like okay let's run another campaign saying the same thing so it's, I think it's probably going back to being authentic, it's not just about repeating the same things or just pretending to be optimistic and positive. Like I think consumers are becoming smarter and they don't really buy everything that you're just selling as a brand. - Yeah yeah and I think like it's difficult to explain. do you find this, that it is difficult toexplain like the power of social media outsideof just making sales. - Yeah yeah for sure. - So whenyou're working, because charities and nonprofits like they're working on a tighter budget, - yeah yeah, for sure. - how do you sort of explain to them like this is an important place to invest this is why it is worthwhile. - Yeah that's definitely a challenge. I think that is a challenge anyway for every sector because not everyone is still convinced on the power on social media despite all the years now that we're working on that but I think yeah there's the way to go for sure but I think specifically in the charity sector because the budget and the resources are very limited and I think this year it became even more limited and most of the time they don't even have a dedicated social media manager so it's someone doing marketing or even fundraising in one role. I think even though i was always trying to like communicate the value of social media you also need to like find them halfway so you can tell them you need to dedicate 20, 30 hours a week on social media they don't have this time. So it's trying to help them with the time that they have even like a couple of hours a week to make the most of it and find use beyond just social media, so we usually try to get them to see that as part of comms and fundraising and all the other work that they're doing. So think for example how you connect with your supporters this way and your followers, how you can now that you don't have physical events it's a great opportunity to stay connected, so you need to think how they would be convinced with all clients I guess in general. - Yeah yeah and I think that connection is like a key part of it because when I, when I'm talking to clients it's very much like this is you are building connections it's networking it's people getting to know who you are and what you stand for. - and so thatwhen in the future they're like "oh I need somebodywho does this thing or I want to buy this thing,that you're already there in their mind. Like "oh yes! I already know this person, I already know this brand, I like what they stand for" and I think that kind of it works as well for for charities because there are there are a lot of charities who you might want to donate to and I know like I so have this problem where I'm like, I want to make a donation Where?! There are so many charities that I want tosupport, how do I sort of effectively distribute myfunds? - Yeah. - And if you've gota great social media presence that is a good way to A, sort of talk about why you are a good charity to donate to and how you are using those funds effectively and also just to be in people's minds so that when people are like yeah okay it's payday I want to make a donation or whatever there you are. It's like "oh yes, that was the person I was going to donate to." - I think it's pretty much telling them more about the idea of the funnel but not using the word funnel. Like the way you walk from awareness to consideration and then obviously get the conversion like it doesn't happen magically. Like someone wouldn't show up and donate if they don't know anything about you but if you prepare the ground, if you tell stories, if they follow you on social media, it means that they see more of you so they're more prepared to go into the next steps. - Yeah definitely, definitely and I think that that is a good point because while i do work with some charities I mostly work with small business owners but there is the same problem of like using marketing terminology. "okay now how do I explain this in non-jargon terms? Right okay" but then I tend to fall into that sort of using the word "journey a" lot. - Yeah - and i feel like that is so overusednow and everybody's just like really"journey?" Okay we're going there. [laughter] Okay so you have been at Lightful for you say for three and a half years. What is your plan for the future of Lightful and just your sort of future generally on social media? - That's a big question. Well I think after last year, this time last year when we realised that you can't really plan many things in advance because I think I'm quite terrified to think of the future, but I think anything that you can predict at least from your perspective because you don't know what happens in the world, I think I would like to continue the journey that I'm doing and obviously Reclaim Social is like a passion project for me, and like being interested in social media, and that being your profession, but also trying to find a way to connect with others through that mission and the campaign and explore the next steps. Like for example this year we kind of started exploring more practical ways to Reclaim Social throughout the year, so writing more blogs, we're working for example with a collective called Charities Against Hate, so it's a number of charities in the UK that are kind of like looking for ways to make marketing more ethical, like they have the concerns around advertising and Facebook but they also know that we can't leave Facebook because we really need that still. So it's more about questioning and like trying to educate others on how can we make marketing more ethical, how can we reclaim social for good on like practical ways, help others understand for example the idea of misinformation lately, how can you present that? How can you be more critical? or how can you improve your own social media presence? So instead of just saying we want to reclaim social and it's only the problem from the platforms and everything that they're doing it's also on our side, how can we change small things, and trying to get others to understand pretty much what we take for granted sometimes because we use social media a lot. - Yeah, that's something that I've been talking about as well lately is that sort of idea of individuals and small business owners and sort of changing how they use social media because yeah like you say Facebook, actually my last email was about Facebook and the advertising boycott and stuff, so yeah and I think there has been this sort of push to delete Facebook from some people but I was talking to Dora and actually had a podcast earlier and she was asking about like are people still on Facebook? You know, is it worth me being there because everybody's talking about deleting it and I was like, well actually yeah, it's still by far the most used social media platform, so for all the sort of noise about deleting Facebook, there are still most people there. - That's true. - And even like with all the ethical issuesI kind of feel like you. Like i it i don'tagree with the sort of ethos of the platform and a lot of the the ways that it's run but it is such a powerful way for small businesses and charities to connect with people and grow their own presence and so, for me, that sort of balance of, well if your ethical business is able to reach more people and become sustainable financially and to sort of invest and then support other financial, other ethical businesses and provide more jobs that are paying a living wage then that's the net good - Yeah yeah yeah. - But I dothink it's difficult to because some people are totally hung up on the the sort of morality around Facebook and I like, I get it, I so get it, but yeah I still at the moment, I still fall on the like it's a net good, but yeah. And I think the other interesting thing about sort of Facebook is a lot of the sort of boycott Facebook people I see are still on Instagram. - yeah, that'strue that's another story and you probably use WhatsAppanyway. You didn't really ran away. - Yeah exactly. I find it really interesting but then I wonder how many people genuinely still don't know that Facebook owns Instagram, because I've had so many conversations even over the past year where I've been like "you know Facebook owns Instagram and Whatsapp?" And they go "no" which always surprises me but apparently it's not a thing, apparently not everybody knows that and which is another reason it fascinates me that Facebook is integrating its own branding into Instagram and Whatsapp now, because I kind of felt that was a weird decision because of the the branding issues around Facebook now. So what were your thoughts on that? Because when I saw that they were going to integrate the Facebook branding I was like wow! That is an interesting choice, that's not the wayI would have gone. - I think that's true, there's pros and cons I guess. I think I would probably think like you that maybe I should keep it like low profile and don't mention Facebook on Instagram because there are so many people who don't know that but I think it's probably also for them way bigger than just the PR side of things that they want to show to everyone that I do own Instagram because Instagram is really growing, so they don't necessarily want to like have them completely different, so they want to make it clear like I'm pretty much monopolising with like having WhatsApp and Instagram all in one place. But yeah, again I think from PR perspective it's not like great. - Yeah. I was like I would be interested to be sat in that meeting where that decision happened because, like it genuinely was like "okay okay, fair enough." - Freaking me on Facebook now I guess. - Do you use Instagram or, well specifically Instagram much for your sort of personal stuff? Or are you very much like social media is now a workthing? - I think I had the phase that I saw like that that I felt like tired from social media, like I have on and off phases that I'm just logging out at work but I think at the end of the day it's still a way to connect with others and especially this year you still felt the need to stay in touch with friends and people all over the world. so I think I'm trying not to use every platform and like be logged in all the time, but I think Instagram and Twitter is probably the ones that I also use from a personal, like professional networkingkind of way. - And I think that's, I think I've sort of found the same that I have drifted, I guess, from sort of using social media for personal so much but I am, I think I've kind of gone the way of more like the private messaging apps - Yeah. - That's like connection rather and Twitter fan, like Twitter was my social network especially for personal stuff and now I think a lot because of the trending topics, not being able to get rid of - yeah, yeah yeah - the trending topics is hands down the worst thing about twitter as far as I'm concerned. - That was my challenge with me managing Twitter on a day-to-day basis for like several hours and seeing all the trending topics that are usually negative like nine out of ten and like of course it affects you, and of course it drains you, so I've noticed recently the last couple of months I haven't used Twitter that much on a personal level because I felt tired but then Instagram probably feels a little bit less heavy in a sense of like, you don't necessarily need all the news and you curate your feed more so you can still stay connected and like engage with others but not having exposed to like trending topics 24/7. - Yeah yeah definitely. How have you, on that topic, like how have you sort of taken care of your sort of mental health and your emotional well-being over this sort of past year especially with being working so much in social media? - It'sdefinitely a challenge. I think it depends on the week or even the day sometimes if you feel like you can dive more into like the channels or if you just want to just like schedule something and then disappear. I think it's just like obviously trying to be mindful and I think trying whenever I can to control my screen time or, as you were saying, treat it as a job and when you feel like tired you just stop checking on the feed like after work and I think there was also a conversation on our work but I think also I've seen other social media managers saying that it was hard, like it's good to acknowledge this year that it was hard and have the support from your team or other colleagues or broader, in like other social media managers who did kind of like support groups, like let's go for like let's talk about our challenges and know the things like we're dealing through. - Yeahyeah I have to say like having said that that Twitter is not my favorite place anymore. marketing Twitter has been amazing this last year. It has been just like wow! There's just so many like relatable tweets and just like "appreciate your social media managers," shout out to social media managers who are trying to keep on top of everything right now. - And it makes you feelbetter instantly seeing that because you realise that it's not just you, every single person doing marketing and social like they're burned out. It's been a year now, they see things. - Yeah it's trueit does it makes a huge difference to sort of see your your own experiences reflected, which actually is another of the sort of the powerful things about social media. But I think sort of from just from a general perspective is if you can see yourself reflected in the posts that you're seeing, that is so powerful to not just sort of validate your own experiences but to also just be like, yeah I am a part of the community, I'm a part of what is going on so that is sort of something that has, has been much easier for me as like a cis white woman, I am very represented on social media, but I think this past year as well has seen a real push for inclusion and diversity on social media and a lot of sort of the issues around like the... Instagram I don't want to say censoring, that's a strong word but limiting the reach of certain creators and certain images based on their race or their sexuality or their gender and things like this and I, it has been, it has been difficult but it has been nice to see the pushback on that, so what has kind of been been your experience with like seeing yourself represented in social media and the seeing just diversity in general on socialmedia? - I think it's what you said, I think it's really encouraging that the last year there were more conversations around diversity and inclusion from all sorts of communities who didn't feel represented in the past and it's kind of refreshing to see that obviously for very negative reasons that it started from some instances that were not ideal and you didn't feel represented or you felt like affected and triggered possibly from what you see, but still there were some conversations that started that they're kind of going in the right direction, and I see many activists more like interested in diversity and inclusion and starting some conversations saying that tech platforms now approach them and they start some conversations so it feels like, especially with Twitter or like Instagram, because they're like different platforms but still have different issues and many people like were protesting and like quitting from time to time towards the lack of representation and the issues, but still seeing that they're kind of trying to be in the right direction and of course there's a long way to go but they can't really hide and pretend that there isn't an issue, that's at least one step in the right direction. - Yeah and i do think i i do think that they are trying now especially like you say Twitter and Instagram do seem to be genuinely putting the effort in to speak to people and implement things and test things and be like "well how can we how can we actually deal with this?" but I will say like, I do not envy the people who are trying to fix that problem. - Yeah sure for sure. - That is it's so deep rooted as well which I think is entrenched in the algorithms and even the people using the platforms there isn't like, you can't just tick a box or tweak something and be like boom! - yeah yeah. "we're okay now, everybody's included" so again. - The algorithm as you've said then, probably the bias and like how everyone assumes that everyone is thinking like you or anyone is like you. So if you're like a white male trying to like create the algorithm you're like "oh yeah, everyone thinks like me, like isn't that how it's supposed to be?" Like any sort of misrepresentation like it starts from like not spending the right time with like different groups of people to try to understand how would someone be affected, or what you would create, like did you miss something that you're not aware of? - Andit's true. it is just a case of you have to have people from different walks of life with you when, on your team, because you can't expect one, any one individual, to be able to have those experiences all that knowledge because there are so many different nuances, so it is definitely a big issue of sort of having people in those rooms and on those teams from a variety of differentbackgrounds. - yeah yeah. - which I am not surehow well they're doing on that score tobe quite honest. I think, yeah they are at least they are speaking to creators which is nice to see because that's also not something that's happened all that often for past few years really it has been very much like top down. Like what do the bosses at this social network want to see? Right well we'll roll that out and then users are just sort of like "oh we didn't need this. we didn't, what is this? It's terrible, it's truly terrible." So you have been nominated and in fact won several awards for the the work that you do around like Reclaim Social, social for good, changing the conversations on social media. You are, as I actually said before we started recording, I'm kind of like having a fangirl moment, a role model for me. Who nominated you for those things. was it your sort of was it Lightful, did you? - Yeah yeah they were my colleagues and in one of the cases with Digital Women I was already part of the group and I think the community manager messaged me like "oh have you seen these awards, I think it could be a great fit" to pretty much like have a look if you're interested then kind of like self-nominate yourself, which was very awkward! - Yeah I think, yeah, but you must have had if your sort of colleagues as well, did you then speak to them? Were you like, why do I deserveto win? - No, I left it up to them. I'm like I don't want to see anything you can write whatever you want, I don't be involved in the process. - Do you find it weird that, do you find it like awkward to be sort of recognised for your work? are you more like I just I want the work to stand on its own and I'm just sort of part of a team and we we do it and put it out there? - Yeah I think I always prefer to focus on the work, it's not like you're doing the social good sector for like standing out on your own as a person and your brand. But obviously like any sort of recognition collectively and more about the campaign and the movement it's very important because when I started I didn't realise that this is a thing, I was just doing kind of like a project on my own, so as it gathered more attention and there were more people interested and there were some awards coming up, then you realise that there is something there, and while you put the work sometimes you don't realise it so it's good to like stop and reflect at some point and see that actually you're working towards something. So it is a nice moment to like stop and celebrate a bit. when there are achievements whether you're social media like things in general or in your industry in general, I think is so important and I think that's something as well actually that this year has taught a lot of people is like you need to like take your wins where you can get them. - Yeah exactly especially this year like any small win counts! Like celebrate - So I want to ask then what sort of top tips do you have for people generally who want to see a more positive social media, more inclusive and also just want to they want to be more good on social media? - Good question. I thinkit probably starts from you so obviously you can'tfix everything on your own we need to hold to take platforms accountable for the things that they need to fix as we discussed but also don't just say that I hate Facebook because they do this and this wrong and I don't think they're ethical, like if you feel like there is a reason and you want to stay on the platform, try and explore ways on your own that you want to change that from your personal perspective. So for example something that I usually say in terms of the tips is like it's very easy when you see like a post that really makes you angry to jump in and comment and like continue a conversation with trolls or anyone that you don't agree. Like this is how it works, this is how the algorithm wants you to engage, but then when you see that and obviously I've been there many times like I always stop myself and I say like do you really want to respond to that? Do you want to affect your mental health and feel like, oh now I'm angry or like I'm sad I'm depressed because saw something that I didn't like and didn't agree. So stop yourself for a second and think and try to be more critical with all similar interactions or with misinformation. Like you see an article you don't read it, you share it and then it keeps on going, but if you haven't spent the time to be a little bit more critical and be more careful with what you're sharing and realise the power that you have, then this of course affects others and usually those who don't use social media like we do for like many hours during the day that don't realise the impact it can have and how someone else can read the post, and that keeps going. So try to understand social media is probably kind of like the way you would be on face to face in a room and you need to think what you're saying. It's not just start rambling about random things, so treat it like any interaction where you kind of filter yourself, but not too much obviously. - Yeah yeah the way I tend to talk about it actually is kind of like you're at a pub. You might be having a one-to-one conversation in a pub with somebody but the people around you can still hear you and so if you say something about so and so who lives next door to you and that they're doing this awful thing, that is gonna get out, it's not a private conversation. - And yeah like you said it was sort of, I will say I have been guilty of commenting on sort of rage inducing articles and every time I do it I regret it and I try, I do try to avoid it because I am so aware that the engagement is what feeds it. - Yeah exactly, exactly. - And like when I saw there was an article that came out last week I thinkit was about the engagement on misinformation posts and how Facebook's algorithm has amplified misinformation because they, it fuels engagement and the the stats in it would, like they shocked me and I work I was like wow and yeah, I think it's something that so many people don't understand is if you engage on something that is a vote for "I want to see more of this" even if you don't share it, you are saying like "yeah, this is, this is what I want to see more of, this is what I want this person to share more of, this is what should be spread around social media," so yeah my advice is always the same it's like don't engage on those posts, do engage on the the posts that aren't getting a lot of engagement because they're about something nice or something boring or facts. - It was interesting when they were saying about when they start with the anti-vaccine misinformation and like those who just spread fake news, I think it was the World Health Organization that they were saying that usually the resources that are the official ones that don't get the same engagement because you just see that you agree, or you find it interesting but you don't necessarily share that because it's not provoking, you see something, it's interesting that's it. So don't assume that because you like something you should just leave it there and engage only with the ones that you don't agree and you hate, because you don't get the right content afterwards. - Yeah it's true, it's true and I think it, the truth is often boring, like the real facts are often, like they're never 90 percent of this or 99 percent of that or whatever it's always, you know it's not shocking content because it's I'm not gonna say balanced, obviously sometimes it is very one way or the other, but it's not the same as like when you see that misinformation that has the bold claims that this causes this or this happens or this many people and I think that's what it is, it's that shock factor, like if somebody sees that they're much more likely, but it's really difficult to then spread the actual factual information because either you've got to then try and put it out as if it's shocking somehow, which then causes a problem in itself because people will only read the headline or look at the image and they won't actually take in the rest of the information, or you just sort of have to cross your fingers and be like "please engage with this post, please share these facts. please do it." - There was an interesting change from Twitter on that which was very encouraging, that when you retweet Twitter post that now you have the warning that it says that have you actually read it, are you sure you want to share that? So it kind of makes you think again so that you don't necessarily tweet like within a second and you don't question that, so obviously that's a step in the right direction. at least as a start. - Yeah I thought that wasa really nice change actually, I was pleased to see that and I know a lot of people were like "oh yeah because we need this over the edit button!" Yes, we do need this more than an edit button! I'm gonna nail my colours to the mast, I don't want an edit button on Twitter! -We'll never get it. I think everyone wants it but don't give it! - I can understand why people want it but I'm just like, can you not see the glaring issue with it? No don't do it, please don't do it! Okay so how then do you sort of recommend that charities and individuals and small business owners make, sort of get their boring factual positive views out there? Is there sort of something you have found that is generally effective to get people to engage with and and share the good things? - I think what we're usually telling the charities but I think it's relevant for all small businesses and everyone who don't necessarily have like a large audience, it's try to understand your audience, like those you want to engage and even start with those who are already like your loyal fans. It could be just your network, it could be like your family and friends, those who want to support you, and turn them into your best ambassadors. So obviously if you've just started, for example you start an Instagram account you might have a presence on other channels but you haven't grown that yet, so you want to start with those who know you, you can't just engage with those who have no idea who you are and if you've just started in general on social media it means that you want to understand what does your target audience want from you? Why should they engage with you? And then try to think, how can I engage with probably other accounts that might be relevant to have some sort of partnership and collaboration, to just think of it as generally a social channel, it's not just about spreading your message without caring what the others think, try to be engaging in like actually authentic and get your voice out there. - Yeah and I think that it's something that always comes up when I speak to people because they're like "but how how do i know what my audience want?" And i'm like, "well you could, you could ask them." And like without fail people will go, "I never thought of that." Nobody thinks of it and, I think especially with social media, it makes it so easy to actually just be like "hey, what do you actually want from this account? What kind of content do you enjoy? Hey, I see you've commented on three of these posts like what was it about those ones that you liked versus the other ones? Because I want to do more stuff that you like." - yeah yeah and even looking at it so if you feel that as you've said, you liked on these specific posts and it had more engagement compared to the other things, like it means that there was something specifically there, maybe you asked the question so it was more direct in terms of engagement, or you ask them to share, but sometimes works when you ask them to do something it's like making easier for someone to understand. Like if they want to support you, okay this is what I need to do. Or it might be a great photo or like a video that works better than the rest of the posts, so it's always good to go back even if you can't ask your audience and see like okay, what was the difference from one post to another. - I would say callsto action is like another thing I always get pushback on from people. It's like oh no! But people have this this association with like calls to action equals buy my stuff and I'm always just like no, it's literally anything that tells somebody what they can do next, like a question is a call to action. It's, it doesn't have to be sales but there needs to be something so that somebody reads your post and they're like "this is great" and then they knowwhat to do next. Do you want them to save it or share it or send it to somebody or leave a comment or like, there needs to be sort of something that's like "here, if you like this post,this is the thing that I would really appreciateyou doing because." - Yeah yeah exactly - And theother thing is I think like, calls to action like aren't manipulative or needy or like, it's just A it depends I think how you do them. - Yeah true. - And it really, I thinktrying to flip your, like how you see calls to action is really important because they are so so powerful on social media. - Yeah, I think you just have to be smart with this you don't want to just add a caption and say "like this," like nobody would like it just because you said that, but if you had some context, explain more what the content is about and just add the end of it like a nice way to have a call to action as you said, "if you enjoy this other comment or like, share it with your friends," or something like that it doesn't have to be like very direct and feel like really pushing them to do something but if they do enjoy what they're seeing it's like you're telling them if you want to do something extra for that, this is what you can do. - Yeah andI do think like everybody basically just needs to have like, have a think about why they have an issue with like calls to action and try and sort of flip that and I think one of the good ways to do it is to find some of like your favorite accounts or accounts who you like their content and have a look, because so many people don't realise that they're reading calls to action, and if you go to like your favorite accounts and have a read of their captions, you will likely find that they are using calls to action, you just didn't notice. And I think it makes the point though doesn't it that they don't have to be like "like this post, leave a comment, share this with a friend" it has been really really lovely to talk to you. - We just go on! So do you want to tell everybody then like where can they find you? How can they follow you? What do you do? Like all thosethings. - Well as I'm usually saying to my friends, like it's easier to find me on Instagram than just on a text or like in real life nowadays! So yeah feel free to follow me if you want on Twitter or Instagram or just keep an eye on the hashtag or the social handles of Reclaim Social because it's always like a nice way to find like more positive and interesting stories around social media, so yeah that's it. - I will putall of those links in the... show notes that's the word! And yeah thank you so much! - thankyou, I really enjoy it. - When you said you were "yes" I literally messaged my best friends and I was like "oh my god! Oh my god!" - I mean, I love the idea of the podcast and I started I took the first episode so as you can imagine anything on like purposefully marketing and stuff like that on social like it's always a good thing. - So yeah, thank you verymuch and I hope you enjoyed the other episodes. [Hawke] If you want more regular reminders to find your own way to use social media follow Alexis on your social platform of choice. All the links will be in the show notes. Until next time, be a human.