Social Media Manager Lexi Wilson (she/her) shares how her ADHD has impacted her work, her life and her parenting. We chat about the good and bad of social media and how Facebook's hate speech policy is catching the wrong people.
Lexi is a social media manager, mom, ADHD wild woman and natural redhead.
Facebook page: www.Facebook.com/leximarkets
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Voice over by Hawke Wood: https://www.spotlight.com/3490-9081-8844
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- [Hawke] Hello and welcome to Social Media for Humans, the podcast that empowers you to do social differently. Your host Alexis Bushnell and her guests discuss their experience of social media as business owners, users, and ultimately humans. With insights and advice to help you find an effective and ethical strategy that works for you. Grab yourself a drink and join the conversation. - It's all good, it's all good. Okay are we ready? - Hello. (Alexis laughs) Hello hello. This is oh it's a shame I didn't record the outtakes of this. Hello I'm here with Lexi. We are double Lexi today. Would you like to introduce yourself? - I would love to. So I'm Lexi. I use she her pronouns and I am a social media manager. - Yes you are. And we got chatting through the podcast basically, which is just fabulous. (Alexis laughs) - Yay. - So you have said just before I hit record that you found especially the episode I did with Trudy on being neuro divergent and using social media and how to navigate that especially useful. So that is I will I'm not gonna play favourites, but that is one of my favourite episodes. (Alexis laughs) - It's a great episode. - It's a great episode. So what was it about that episode that really sort of spoke to you? - So I have ADHD. And. I find that social media actually kind of plays really well with ADHD. So I had a little bit of a different experience from Trudy, but I could totally relate to the fact that she's just like this is all a lot. You know and kind of particularly speaking to like I have content to do right now. And I am not in the mood to do that content right now was definitely I'm like oh preach it, like I totally get it 'cause that's. ADHD's an interesting animal, at least for me. It's so different for everybody, but for me I very much am along the lines of like I thrive on chaos. And procrastination drives my best stuff. So like I was the kid in college that was like oh English class is in five minutes and my paper's due and I haven't even started it. And I would just bang out a fantastic paper to the point where my professor would be like oh you know Lexi's gonna kind of be like a you know, quote unquote TA without being a TA or getting any of the perks of being a TA. And she's gonna help you guys edit your papers. And I'm like cool I wrote this five minutes ago, I can't help you guys at all. But so I really fully like related to that just the absolute shenanigans of just being neuro divergent in any way shape or form and having to get you know get your stuff together. - Yeah yeah. Yeah and I think it's so common. And I think even if you aren't neuro divergent, even if you don't have mental illness or a chronic illness or something going on like life happens. You know? Stuff happens. And it can really throw you you know? Even if it's things like grief has been a big one this past year or so. It really affects you and it affects your ability to function in a lot of ways. And I think it's really useful. Like me I would teach mental health management skills and DBT skills in like in schools like to everybody, because honestly everybody needs them. (Alexis laughs) - Yes seriously it's true it's true. Like there is just so many things that we're missing you know teaching our kids. And I know they say like well that's supposed to be done at home, it's like yeah well you know we kinda live in a society where like both mom and dad or dad and dad or mom and mom or whatever your set up is, everyone has to work. You can't have a you know a parent at home and a parent at work and things be okay so much anymore. So it's like (Lexi sighs) yeah we kinda have to pick that up in school a little bit. Like and really just teach like how to manage yourself as a human being in the world. And I think learning that in college is a little too late. You need to develop it as a habit when your brain is fully developing. And like what do they say, like 25, 27 is when your brain is fully developed. Like if you're hitting that in your early 20's it's a little late. You might develop those habits but it's a lot harder. - Yeah yeah. I think the other thing we're sort of teaching at home or having parents, caregivers whoever teach it is that a lot of parents people who are parents now don't have those skills themselves. Because. - Totally. - The mental health landscape if you will was very different when even when I was younger. I'm 33 for anybody who wasn't sure. (Alexis laughs) To give you a little timeline. - I'm 32. I'm right there with you. (Alexis laughs) - So even when I was younger there was like mental health support in place, kind of, sort of you know, but it was nowhere near what I needed. (Alexis laughs) - Right. - And so like even though I've like I've been through a lot of therapy, and I have done a lot of my own research and self-development and what have you. And I do not feel equipped to teach a child how to manage their emotions. Because like I'm not that great at it still to be honest. (Lexi laughs) - I can barely handle me. (Alexis laughs) - Yeah exactly. - Let alone you. Like so like my daughter has ADHD and that's kind of where I'm at is I'm like do you know how hard it is to have a medicated or un-medicated but especially un-medicated ADHD brain try to help another ADHD brain? Oh no it is a hot mess. It is just a disaster. But we're you know we're kinda muddling through it. So yeah I fully agree with that. And I think especially like (Lexi sighs) with our age range right. And. When I was growing up. Boys. Were. Oh (Lexi snaps fingers) ADHD we kinda spot that in them because for you know for boys it was more like oh they're hyper and that's obvious, that's really obvious they have ADHD. But I think that for girls it was more like I don't know, it was just different it didn't present the same way. And I think that you know biologically female biologically male we kind of have always gone off of like oh the standard you know, straight white men this is how they you know straight cis gender white men this is how they present. Therefore that's how the whole world presents. And it's like no pumpkin. That's not how goes on. So it's really though it is really uplifting to see kind of this new generation. Like my kids are 12 and nine. My daughter's the 12-year-old she's the one with ADHD. And just sort of watching how the schools handle it now versus when I was in school and my second grade teacher will never forget this, my desk was always a mess. She took my desk and while everyone was lined up waiting to go to lunch she made them sit there and watch me while she dumped my desk out on the floor and made me pick it all up and clean it up. That teacher would be fired immediately today, you would hope, it's getting better. But you know back then it was just oh it was tough love, you know like no I'm 32 and I've never forgotten that woman nor have I ever forgiven her. So like oh. But yeah that's that whole landscape is just such an interesting thing. So that episode really truly touched my heart, like I was so happy to like listen to it and I was like oh yes like let's talk about this. (Lexi laughs) - I think it's really, especially with ADHD, but generally speaking, with social media, it is woo (Alexis laughs) it is because social media is designed to basically shorten your attention span to give you that instant hit of dopamine and be like yes, yes, keep scrolling, keep scrolling. So for someone with ADHD how does that impact you? - Oh I get sucked into TikTok for four hours at a time. And I feel like that's a pretty universal problem. You either love TikTok or you hate it. But like my partner, he'll be like, you've been watching these for four hours. And I'm like you've been over my shoulder watching these (Lexi laughs) for four hours. So like I don't wanna hear you complaining now. And but it's so easy right, like you just get sucked in so fast. I turned on the function on my iPhone where it basically is just like here's how much time you spend on your phone this week. And. I initially had a time limit set up for things like Facebook. And then I would just keep clicking like skip the time limit for today, just skip it, like we're just gonna keep using it. And I'm like woo I have a problem, but it just it truly those little hits of dopamine. And for an ADHD brain that's what your brain is looking for all the time. It's why we thrive well in chaos or we think we do, we've kind of adapted to thrive well in chaos. And so just that constant change it works great as a career, but as an individual human being in my personal and private life I have actually because and you may have found this also, I don't know if you were like this before or if social media where it changes for you, but I was on social all the time personally before I started doing it as a job. I now am very rarely posting personally, very rarely consuming personally. I find that I still kind of need to for work because I'll stumble across things on my private time and go oh that'd be perfect for work. And so finding boundaries is also really hard, and maintaining those boundaries is also really hard. - Yeah, boundaries really is difficult. And I think actually I was talking to Theresa in the previous episode and we were talking about how we use social media outside of work. And she was saying that she does use social media now for like personal stuff. And I was saying, I feel like I have kind of backed off social media personally and gone towards like private messaging apps. And it is because of that. A lot of it is because like on Facebook I hate, I'm not gonna lie, I hate Facebook. I sincerely. It is not my favourite place. For a million reasons. - You're not alone. (Alexis laughs) - And but like with Facebook a lot of the problem I have is that I have clients message me on there even though I do prefer email. There is this sort of assumption that like well you know you're on Facebook so I'll message you on Facebook Messenger. So I can't get away from clients on Facebook. If my clients are listening, you're lovely and wonderful but I need a break sometimes. - Right right right. (Alexis laughs) Boundaries are important for everybody, and it doesn't mean you don't love them. I set boundaries with my children. It doesn't mean I don't love them it just means mama needs her space, give me a minute here. (Alexis laughs) - Yeah. And so yeah so like Facebook is not my favourite place to go outside of, it's not my favourite place to do work either. (Lexi laughs) I use Twitter a lot for work now because of marketing Twitter is just gold. (Alexis laughs) - I know. I know. - Incredible. And Instagram what I kinda found was I was posting, I really have a really hard time because Instagram is kind of my network I have a really hard time just doing Instagram casually. And so when I have a personal account but I was I could not think of it as just post something, it doesn't need to have a caption, it doesn't need to have hash tag research. Literally just post anything, it doesn't matter. - No it's hard to break it! - It is. And so I was in this mindset where I was like, there's I used to do sort of tea and tarot Tuesday was like a hashtag thing I used to join in with on Tuesdays as you might imagine. And I kept finding that if I was busy or I just wasn't really in the mood to post something or I didn't have time to write like a lengthy caption I just felt so guilty. And I was just like oh no I'm failing at Instagram. Like it's a personal account, get a grip. (Lexi and Alexis laughing) - Honestly though I feel this so hard because it's like okay so I went with my kids yesterday for a hike for Mother's Day. It was gorgeous, it was about four miles back and forth. And my daughter hated it, my son loved it, which is on brand for them. And (Lexi laughs) I initially got on my personal face, or personal Instagram, and I just did a 10 picture carousel and then I had to do it in two parts and I felt like I'm like oh my god like this is, I hardly ever posted anything that was more than 10 photos and then had to do it in a two part post? Like oh. And then after I did that I went in and I'm not kidding I made a reels of all of our photos after the fact because I was like I hate this so much, and I deleted my posts and posted the reels instead. And I'm just like you need to get a grip Lexi, like this is too much. This is my personal private. It is fully private, I have it locked down, you can't follow me unless I accept. And like and then I shared it to my Facebook because that's the extent of as much as I post on Facebook now so I just share from Instagram. And yeah so I totally get it, like the overthinking of just like nobody on here cares. No one on here cares, this is not a brand, this is not your work profile, these are people who love you hopefully (Lexi laughs) like. And you know like and just are like oh cool this is what Alexis is up to today. Like and yet we're sitting here like do I need hash tags do I wanna do the first comment? Like do I need to make it a reels? Do I wanna do a 10 part like what's gonna perform better? I don't even have analytics on this, it's a personal profile which I kind of low key hate honestly because I'm like do I turn my personal profile into a business profile just so I can see who's paying attention? (Lexi laughs) But that's a bit obsessive that I need to just like cut that off at the knees. - I think that might be part of my problem actually is because my personal profile used to be for a blog 'cause I used to be a blogger. And so it is technically a business account so I'd have insights and I used to use it for work but when I was a blogger. And I just cannot. (Alexis laughs) - You can't let go. - It physically hurts me to post stuff that I know is not optimised. (Lexi and Alexis laugh) - We truly need like a social media management anonymous group. Like (Alexis laughs) hi I'm Lexi and I am addicted to hashtag strategy. Like I can't. And it's just so like part of me is kind of trying to embrace it right? And just like you know what, whatever, it's this thing I love to do, and if it becomes a problem then I will address it. But that's sort of a slippery slope because it's just like I'm just having three drinks with dinner. If it becomes a problem. You know and it's like wait a minute, this is you know, it does the same thing to your brain right that like drugs and alcohol can gives you that hit that you need. So it's like not to make light of like alcoholism or drug addiction or anything but like truly social media addiction I think is the next big thing that we have to kind of look at. And not in a way that I think like some of the news outlets are like social media's terrible for people. 'Cause I think it has wonderful applications. And we have friends and family all over the world. I mean we're doing this right now because of social media. And you know I think it's fantastic, but I think also our brains are kinda designed to get hooked on things really quickly. And if we're not careful I mean if we don't keep that in check like I received a phone call from a reporter about a month ago. Right around the time that Facebook was like we're kinda looking into an Instagram for kids. Do you remember that announcement? - Oh. (Alexis laughs) Yes I do. - Yeah. Yeah. So I had tweeted about it, and I was like terrible idea. As a mother don't love this. You know I let my kids use Facebook Messenger for kids because it's very locked down and I control every bit of it. And it's also not social, it's just a messaging platform, I'm okay with that. And so this reporter saw my tweet and he's like I wanted to ask you about this. And we were kind of talking about it and he's like so would you let your kids use Instagram for kids? And I said "hell no, no way, absolutely no way." And not because I don't think social media has value, obviously I do or I wouldn't be in the field. But because I'm not trying to set my kids up from an early age to be addicted to the scroll. I am not trying to set them up to automatically start judging themselves and their peers based off of their Instagram content. They're already going to do that, I'm not here to help them do that. So you know it's the very fine line I think where we're just like okay so how do we treat this in the way that it needs to be treated, where it's like it can be really fun, it can be really uplifting, it can be really optimistic. And then how do we stay away from like the dark side of every platform? 'Cause every platform has it, though some are worse than others Facebook. But you know how do we kind of like balance that? And you know that's kind of I know that I had told you that like I had run into a situation where I caught a Facebook ban. And I kinda wanted to talk about that a little bit today because I think that that is very like inextricably tied in with like my mental health and like just social media managers, users even mental health on the platforms. I had met someone from marketing Twitter that and everybody's heard some iteration of this, but they had said you know never read the comments on your local news station Facebook posts. And I personally live in the area of never read the comments ever, because you're going to find some really horrific things in there that are just gonna drag you down. So I was an avid Facebook user that was 90 probably percent of my time spent on my phone was Facebook usage. I am a wordy person. I love images, but I love words and I like to read things, and that's how I express myself as well. So I never really got into Instagram because it was more like pictures. And then I've noticed people are kind of micro blogging a little bit more with Instagram but they didn't always. And Twitter is obviously limited. And I'm like don't limit my words, I can't, a thread is just too much for me. Although I'm better about it now, but Facebook was where I went. But I also found that Facebook was just dragging me down mentally. And I didn't notice it until I caught my recent Facebook ban. And I got a little mouthy at someone who was being trans-phobic and who was also being homophobic and just generally horrible. A little bit of background for me on that was they were saying something about how adoption is terrible to like birth mothers. I'm a birth mother, I placed my son for adoption with his dad's, March of last year when he was born. So they were hitting home in all the places for me, and I was like mm okay we're gonna fix our little fingers here to say something. Facebook immediately went (Lexi snaps fingers) that's bullying you've caught 30 days. Now 30 days is not your first infraction unless you've said something horrible on the platform. So clearly it wasn't the first time I had been banned, but I was kind of noticing that I was getting banned for saying things that Facebook considered hate speech, but really were not. You know things like, okay you know like white people you need to get your stuff together 'cause we have kind of historically been terrible. And like or there was one where I had re shared an article that statistically in the United States white men are the biggest domestic terrorist threat. It was just true, there was nothing opinion about it, it was just statistically accurate. And I just reiterated what the article said. I caught about a week ban for that one. But then I would see things of people using horrible racial slurs and homophobic slurs and just awful things that to anyone with a brain you'd be like no this does not belong on the internet. No place that claims to moderate their platform should be allowing this kind of speech. And you report it and they say it doesn't violate community standards. So you're like, okay, okay so me saying you know this opinion is trash catches me X amount of days, but you saying you know the N word is fine. Like in a way that's derogatory and awful and you should not be using that word. I ended up deleting Facebook from my phone and I have never been happier (Lexi laughs) honestly. And you know I'd have to use it for work and that caused a bit of an upset at my job because I couldn't do community management for 30 days. I could pretty much just go in and say hey I'm gonna flag this post to someone else who can you know respond or do something about it because I can do nothing. It almost cost me my job which is fair honestly 'cause I couldn't do it for 30 days. It ended up being okay, it was not a big deal, but deleting the app has honestly really truly improved my mental health so much. I get on it now still like the web based version on my phone to I like to check like on this day, and look at my memories from like six years ago and be like aw I was so dumb. But (Lexi laughs) or reframing it more properly look at how much I've grown right? And. But yeah. It's an interesting platform, not to like fully bash on Facebook but I just know that that's like I've seen that a lot on marketing Twitter. And people are like if I could delete my Facebook I would but you can't. You have to have a personal, now it doesn't mean you have to use it, but you have to have a profile to have a business page. And it's I understand that that is Facebook saying like hey we need to keep our users up. And requiring you to have a personal profile keeps our users up, but at what point does that then just become a platform full of angry people and social media managers who are only have a Facebook to run their page? So like it'll be interesting to kinda see what happens over the next few years with that. - Yeah yeah. It is interesting. And I think that the ban sort of situation is difficult for social media managers. Because like I I think earlier this year I think it was I had a disagreement in the DM's on Instagram with a transphobe who I was entirely blissfully unaware was a transphobe. Anyway. And literally I did not say anything offensive at all. They said "well I think we should agree to disagree on this" and I said "human rights are not "an agree to disagree issue." (Lexi clapping hands) - This is not whether or not you like coffee, it's about people. - Exactly. Exactly. And that was it. And about five minutes later I can only assume they reported me because my account was locked. (Alexis laughs) And I'm thinking. - For DM's! This wasn't even comments or anything public. - No. - Wow. - And genuinely. It blew my mind. I was just like, I didn't say any slurs, I wasn't even mean, I wasn't angry, nothing. I literally just said you can't agree to disagree on human rights. - Which is just truth. - I know, I know. And it's absolutely crackers to me how it is enforced. 'Cause like you say, you can report stuff that is very clearly hate speech and nothing happens. But the other thing is that I don't know if it still happens, but last year I saw a lot of the LGBTQ plus community talking about how they had used the word queer to describe themselves on Facebook and been banned because it was hate speech. And I'm. (Alexis laughs) And it like where is the logic? Like I understand that you can't do you know like a computer can't judge nuance, but there's a lot of people using queer as a slur on Facebook who aren't having a problem. (Alexis laughs) - Right like you're targeting the wrong group here. - I was like, okay then that's great okay so we can't self identify, we can't reclaim words, that's not allowed, great, fabulous. - Which is on top of everything else the community faces is like really? Like micro aggressions are a thing and it's like you know come on. Like (Lexi groans). That honestly that makes me just so upset because it's like yes you can appeal it right? Like you can be like no you kinda missed the context of this here. Random example I have a friend who has a horse, right and her horse she had taken a picture of her making a weird face. And I was like your horse looks like she's saying like "bitch please". And when I went to go post that Facebook said, are you sure? They put a little pop up, they're like this is really close to bullying and the kind of comment that's been reported before. And I was like, what? (Alexis and Lexi laugh) What? And I posted it and it was fine, but I know that like in the past Facebook has misread context. And I've been able to appeal it, but you should not have to in the context where you are reclaiming a word that has traditionally been used to harm you and to dehumanise you frankly. And where you're like I wanna own this word. I don't know if you can see on my TV behind me I've been watching "Queer Eye" all day. (Lexi laughs) So I'm like yes like. Love this contextual conversation. (Alexis laughs) But (Lexi laughs) like it's just that is so harmful and I just it is very interesting to see how Facebook as a company handles the different platforms. And how restrictive and yet not at all restrictive Facebook has gotten. And then how Instagram does somewhat better. And maybe it's because there are fewer word issues on Instagram and more image issues. Because I do know that I have friends who are in sex work and you know I used to do burlesque so I have a lot of friends in that realm and that space that are being shadow banned for hashtags they use that are you know being booted off of Instagram entirely because their images are somewhat suggestive which is a whole other thing that is just absolutely asinine to me. How many topless men can we see before we're finally like nipples are not a big deal. But. (Lexi laughs) It's a hot mess is what it is. Just the whole community guidelines bit is a hot mess. And I don't envy their position at all because you have to, they feel like they have to, I don't think they really have to, but they feel like they have to be somewhere in the middle. And that's like mm yeah but like being in the middle kind of is not it anymore. And you have to be really firm on your stance. Like hello Twitter kicking off a certain 45th president being like no you're done, you're outta here, we're done. And then Facebook was like oh all right we'll join in. You know. And it's. (Lexi sighs) It just. They have to do better. If you can target ads so well that someone in the same room as me Googles something and then because we're on a shared network that then shows up in my Facebook ads you can do that that well, then you can do community guidelines well. And you can execute that well. It's just that that doesn't make them money. So you know I get it, we're putting the focus where the money goes, but at some point you're going to lose that money because people are gonna leave the platform. And I've noticed that a lot of people I know have stepped back from Facebook and they're like I'm a better person for it. And that's. Not good. That's not what I would wanna hear as Mark Zuckerberg is like oh I love Facebook and that it's changed my life for the better like. (Lexi sighs) I don't think that was his goal when he started Facebook but. - Yeah. I think that the big issue is 'cause when you look at like the ad spend on Facebook (Alexis laughs) oh this is gonna get people angry, but. (Lexi and Alexis laugh) Conservatives spend a vast amount more money on Facebook ads and ads generally than liberals. Politicians. - Statistically like yeah. - They just do. They spend a vast amount more. It would be a terrible business decision for Facebook to say you can't say X, Y, Z saying that is commonly used in a lot of conservative marketing. (Alexis laughs) - Yeah yeah yeah. - And but at the same time my attitude is very much like if I was running a social network. Tough. You know? - Right. (Alexis laughs) - If you wanna pay to be able to use hate speech I am not the person to pay. Go elsewhere with your money. - Right. Right. - I think especially for Facebook I mean the amount they make in profit just in profits is obscene. They can afford to take a stand you know? And the frustrating thing is that really small businesses like me, like you, (Alexis laughs) we take a stand, and we can't really afford to. If Facebook and people like that did take that stand and go right don't that's it we are not allowing hate speech, we are gonna monitor it like this, we are gonna take these do these things, we're gonna hire real people to monitor things and check things (Alexis laughs) it would make such a massive difference immediately. - Yeah absolutely. - And it is endlessly frustrating to me that they're like, no I need another island. (Alexis laughs) - Right? Well and so you know they're going to lose their audience and they're going to lose their users. And we are their commodity. So you know we are the product they're selling. And if they don't have us to sell what on earth are they going to do? So you know it's Facebook's demographic we all know like especially gen Z is like Facebook's for old people, but like, you know and it's (Lexi laughs) but truly the demographic on Facebook does skew older. So one of my clients is a hardware store in a very small community where I live actually that is a 40,000 person county. And it is a very large land wise county so that's not a whole lot of people for the area. Our top most engaged and most interactive demographic is the 65 and up crowd, which is wild to me, 'cause I'm just like that is insane like I just remember my grandma getting on Facebook and being upset because she's like why is this picture being sent to me? And I'm like nana this is your news feed. Like. (Lexi laughs) And she just didn't understand the concept. And so but they've really adapted it's kind of incredible. Like to how much they use Facebook and like how savvy they are. I'm like yes get it grandma. But like it is an older demographic, and so I think a lot of the younger crowd is kind of like we're sort of escaping to Instagram. And then kind of even younger are like we're going back to Twitter. I was reading an article somewhere that said like gen Z is really focusing on Twitter. And then of course TikTok and it's so I have to say this is so apropos or nothing but TikTok's algorithm if I could clone that and start a new social media platform with that algorithm like it is insanely good. It is so good. You spend 10 minutes on TikTok and they've got you pegged. They're like oh yeah this is what you like to watch, this is what you're into. It's a little scary, but we all know how that works right. And. But it's like the videos that are like oh you've come across my page, you must be this this this this and this. And I'm like dang! Like how did you know? Like. (Lexi laughs) And first of all kudos for knowing your audience, but second like you know just the algorithm is you know the people who are like oh I ended up on conservative TikTok I'm like then what are you watching otherwise? Because in order to end up you have to try really hard to end up there if that's not where you naturally lie politically. So you know it's just social in general is kinda the wild wild west a little bit still even you know what's it been? 2000 oh god. 2006 was when Facebook really like got big? And so it's like we're still kind of looking at it and going huh, like we still don't really know how this works. But it's constantly changing right, so again I think that's why the ADHD works out so well for me. I'm like yes give me new changes, I love things change! It can't be stagnant or I get bored. But it also is really it needs to grow in some ways faster than it has. And you know in taking a stand like you said. And really kind of being like hey this is not okay. And that just takes such a toll on I think especially social media managers who you're just in it. And not only in it but you're in it for a client. And so you have to speak as that client. Some of my favourite clients are the people who are like oh you know if we see trans-phobia, homophobia, misogyny, any of that, you can delete that comment (Lexi snaps fingers) and ban that person with impunity, just go for it. But not every client's gonna be like that. And so trying to like reconcile that like I need to pay my bills (Lexi laughs) it's how I need to work with a client. And I'm also representing myself and also representing this client. And when I'm on their social that's it, I can't be me, I have to be them. That takes a toll on me mentally because you know as we all know from you know from elementary, middle school, high school, from a young age pretending to be something you're not (Lexi laughs) is really draining. And you know some of us were lucky enough to not have ever done that and have always known who they are. I'm like I was not that person. I wish I always knew who I was. I do now, but, you know like it's having to put on a whole other voice and a whole other face and be able to take trolls just kind of at a very you know blank face value, and just go no that's not appropriate, I'm gonna try not to internalise that. You know also like the way that people speak to brands on social it is appalling sometimes. And you're like did you forget that it's a real person that has to do this? Like it can't be done by a bot, it can be but to a point, and you are speaking to real people. And there's just I think there's that disconnect there sometimes for people that they just forget. So it's like how do we not internalise that? How do we step away from the computer or the phone the social in general and just go okay it's time to like back off of this for a few minutes. I know for me like I go for a walk, I get on the elliptical, I call my mom, I have a few different things I can do you know. And or I'll take a screen shot of something sending to my best friend and be like (Lexi groans) you know and she's just like ew. And I'm like see, okay I'm not losing it, like any more than I already am. Like I'm not alone here. But. It just. Trying to focus on okay I have to get the job done, I need to represent the client well. I need to you know take good care of their social, take good care of their customers and their clients, and then also take good care of myself. And I think that that can be really hard. And then you have the whole mentality of like social never sleeps. And it's like well but humans do, so like you can't you have to set boundaries. The CEO of the agency I work for is incredible with that, she's so so good. She's like go to bed, take a nap, (Lexi laughs) like get some rest so like you do not need to be signed on all the time. Tag one of us in if you need help. She's incredible that way. And that is how I know I'm at the right place. Because I cannot handle someone who has no work life balance and who expects me to have no work life balance. Like if that's a choice you've made for yourself that's a personal choice. Great. I know people who function amazingly well off four hours of sleep, I'm not one of them. And but I see that a lot and you probably have seen it too on marketing Twitter of sort of there's that side of marketing Twitter that's like everybody they call themselves like thought leaders, but I like to call them like thot leaders. Like. (Lexi laughs) And it's. (Alexis laughs) And it's repackaged marketing advice with just some of their own flair. Which okay, all right, like that's cool but like we already knew that already, like give me something different and interesting. Like I love Jeeves. Do you follow Jeeves? - I don't think so. - Oh okay I'll have to send you his profile, he's hysterical so funny so so funny. Just oh god like he has this campaign that everyone should always wear shorts all the time and never pants ever. It's ridiculous but he's just, I want to live in his brain he is so smart, he has an amazing like viewpoint on marketing from a real persons perspective that just is really fun to watch. And. Yeah. It's. Yeah I don't know, my brain kinda goes all over the place. So I'll talk about anything, any time, anywhere. (Lexi and Alexis laugh) - I know I do I think it's interesting because a lot of like I work with freelancers mostly and the individuals who are business owners, but it is it's those people the thought leaders who they see. And. They inevitably come to me and are jaded already by all this advice that is not I wouldn't call it advice, I would call it dogmatic in a lot of cases. (Alexis laughs) - It's marketing fortune cookie stuff. - It is! It is. And it really it makes me sad and it also makes me angry. (Lexi and Alexis laugh) Because it's like there's no need for it. And it just it causes, damage feels like a really heavy word, but it does it stops people who need that advice and who's businesses we need to see in the world from marketing themselves. And it just, oh it really rubs me the wrong way for so many reasons. And at the same time I am always conscious that I might step into it because it is such a fine line between like offering marketing advice and becoming a marketing fortune cookie. Like it is like, where do you flip over? When does that happen? (Alexis laughs) - Right. Well and I think that, what I've noticed is that the people who are vulnerable and just fully themselves are the people that most people end up flocking to. Because you can only listen to dogma for so long before you're like (Lexi groans) like this is the same thing you've said last week but just with slightly different words. And. You're also not giving me, like how many threads do we have to see, I'm not calling anyone out specifically I see so many of them, but how many threads do we have to see that say I grew my Twitter following by a thousand followers in a week, here's how I did it. I can't tell you how many I've seen. But then there's no real advice in the thread at all, it's mostly just like I built a community. Cool what does that mean to you? I talked to people about what they wanted to talk about. Cool what do people wanna talk about? Like what do you know specific, like, I need to know, not because I wanna be able to copy it word for word, but I need to know how you did it for who you are, because then I can scale it for who I am. And your clients wanna know how you did it for who you are because then they can scale it for who they are. And if you just tell me oh I did this, but with absolutely no thought or substance behind that I'm not really learning anything. And so it's like great, good for you, you have a large audience but are they an engaged audience? Are they talking to you? Are you know, I tell every client I have, a hundred people in a room hanging on your every word is infinitely better than 10,000 people who couldn't care less what you have to say. And you know that like the vanity metrics of like I have X amount of followers. Like that's lovely, but do they care about you, your brand, what it is you have to say? Do they wanna tell you what they think? Like are you speaking to them and with them or at them? And that's a really hard concept to grasp. And I find that a lot of the thought leaders are kind of they tend to speak at people. I love to follow the people who ask questions and who genuinely wanna hear your answer. And you know engage with you when you answer, and are not just there just to be like I know that if I ask a question it gets good engagement. Well yes it does, but if all you did was ask me a question and then you never responded to anybody, or you responded to like the people with that little blue check mark next to their name and no one else, you're not building an audience you're kind of just interacting with some people. And I kind of am like all right you know. I get it if your thread blew up it's hard to respond to everybody, but taking the time to at least really truly listen and engage is huge, it's huge. And yeah so the world of social media management is just such an interesting. I mean I came from doing it for small businesses and wasn't really involved in marketing Twitter. And in fact like horrific admission on my part I barely used Twitter at all. And (Lexi laughs) which as a social media person people are like ah clutching their pearls, and I'm just like I. It moved both too fast and too confusing at once for me until I finally got it down and just started using it. But. Yeah it just I feel like I follow like a really solid group of people now. And. Can really like glean some true like pearls of wisdom from them. And like you know this is what we're doing here and this is how we're doing it and how you can also do it. And you know it's I know everybody talks about Gary V, I honestly have never watched a single thing he's ever done. I think out of just sheer like obstinance I refuse. I'm like no, 'cause everybody loves him so much. I like. (Lexi groans) I don't know. So but he truly does like give away a lot of his information knowing that it'll come back to him. And I like that kind of marketer who is like I wanna share what I know because you know if you put out you'll get good back. - I have. I do know what you're saying about Gary V. And he does give actual advice which I appreciate. And I think he the advice he gives for the people who were originally his audience because it has grown dramatically and now it is hitting a lot of people who are not his ideal clients. (Alexis laughs) - Oh no. - But every time I see a post from him about you have to be creating more content. You have no excuse to not do video. I want to do things I will not mention on this podcast for legal reasons. (Lexi and Alexis laughing) Like just it is so infuriating when I know he has an entire team of people filming stuff for him, cutting it all up for him, doing the captions, doing the research, scheduling the. All he does is just spouts stuff. Everybody else does the work. And he's like-- - See I think my initial like impression was correct. - You know you can-- (Lexi laughs) (Alexis laughs) He's like you can get a hundred pieces of content form this one video. And I'm just like yeah if you've got hours in the day and all you can afford to pay people to chop up your video and do this that. Like no. Most people cannot do that, it is not feasible. And more content is not the answer. Oh my god please post less content. (Alexis laughs) - Quality over quantity. Quality over quantity. Well and that's like the same people who say like you have the same 24 hours in a day as Beyonc. I'm like no I don't. Beyonc has a whole staff, a whole staff, like she's a queen and is amazing, but she also has help and will say it herself. Like she is not doing all of this alone. And you know and so that is such an unrealistic thing to say but you see a lot of entrepreneurs who are like you know we have the same 24 hours in a day. It's like no we don't. Like if I have a vehicle and I can drive myself to a client, versus someone who has no car and has to rely on public transportation, there goes three hours of their day trying to get where they need to go when it was gonna take them 20 minutes in a car. So you know we don't have the same 24 hours in a day. And you know I'm a single mother, I don't have the same 24 hours in a day as you know even somebody who's not Gary V, who is, you know like oh I don't have any kids. And but even they don't have the same 24 hours in a day as somebody who like doesn't have any kids but is married and has a partner to help, or you know has family. So it's just we all live such a different truth that okay I'm kind of like low key glad I don't follow him. Maybe I shouldn't say that, but I'm like, I feel like that was my initial impression that I got just like my partner he is like, you should follow Gary V. And I'm like I love you but you are a history major and a poly sci minor, you are not in marketing. I am not going to do that. And he comes up with great ideas all the time don't get me wrong, but that's just not his forte. I'm like. No. He also is a Joe Rogan podcast fan and we're trying to slowly wean him off of that as well so. - Oh. - Yeah yeah yeah. (Alexis laughs) Yeah. And I'm like this is your fatal flaw, it's your only flaw, but it is your fatal flaw. So but yeah anyway. Not to like dump on my partner here. He's wonderful, he's an amazing human being. He just you know everybody's got their flaws and that's his. (Alexis and Lexi laugh) But yeah there's a lot of the same stuff being regurgitated. And it's so interesting to see how I went from that side of marketing Twitter. Because I think that's where everyone kinda starts out, because those are the like top people posting under that hash tag. And so you know it's like oh well this is where you, but then you just sort of slowly like thank goodness for the Twitter algorithm that's like oh the person you follow liked this and it's snarky and funny and that is on brand for me. I'm like yes I love this. More of this please. More of the people who are like I adore marketing, I love marketing, I do not live and breathe marketing, it's exhausting sometimes, let's be realistic. But also here's how we can do it better. And like you know I love like truly like your messaging of you know saying like hey if you don't like doing this thing you don't have to do this thing. Like do it your way. And you know and make it your own because none of the accounts that really do well are all the same. Some of them are, you've got some similar themes, but you know then there'll be someone who blows up on Instagram or Twitter that is just like so quintessentially them and different from everyone else. And you're just like oh I love that I love everything about this and I love how you are yourself and no one else could really be like you. You know and there are times when I'm like but me is boring. (Lexi laughs) Like. And but like not to somebody who hasn't lived my life. So you know, they might be like wait you've done this this and this and that's really cool. Like I didn't grow up that way, I would love to know more about that. Or I did grow up that way and I fully vibe with you on this. And it just I think we're all getting a little sick of that cookie cutter kind of feeling. On social. And I think the whole world is like mm. No. - Yeah yeah no no I agree. I think people are realising that the perfect Instagram life that they have been sold is not actually perfect even for the people living it. Yeah I know. - What? (Lexi and Alexis laugh) You don't say. (Alexis laughs) - And it's kind of it's a shame that it's taken so long, but at least we're getting there now that's something. That's something. So yeah yeah. And I do and I think the frustrating thing though is that as with all trends now authenticity is becoming like the thing and has somehow become to mean something that isn't actually just be yourself. - Right. - It's like be. A specific authentic. Version of. I don't get it. I don't. (Alexis laughs) - It's filtered authenticity right? So it's like you're authentic but in a gram-able way. And it's like no, like, because and I mean to be fair like being nobody wants to see like the unfiltered, and maybe some people do, but like I think the general idea is no one wants to see that unfiltered like weirdly angled like take a picture from down here and all I can see is your ceiling authentic version of you. Like that's not fun to look at. So I get that like it has to be you know kind of curated a little, but the accounts that and what I'm kind of, I haven't posted on my Instagram in a while except Saturday I posted. At least my business one. And I'm kind of re tooling how I do that a little bit because I want to share more of who I actually am in context of my business and in context of marketing. But in a way that makes me an approachable human being that's like I am not perfect, and have never been, and don't strive to be either, so don't ask that of me. But also just like these are my struggles but these are my wins. And I think that it is, it's really hard to like avoid that okay but I'm being authentically me but is this on brand? Like I just the idea of a personal brand is still wild to me because I'm like I am such a mish mash of weird things that don't go together. Like personally branding who I am is not gonna be a thing for me. If what you want is ADHD and all over the place that's a personal brand for me, we're all, we're on board here, we've got this nailed down. But it's just you know being accessible and approachable and somebody who's like look X amount of years ago I had the wildest opinions about things I didn't know about ever. And now I've really grown and here's how I've grown. That's something I used to like to do when I was on Facebook more is I would go back and share my political or you know what have you opinions from six, seven, 10 years ago. I'd just be like look, I've grown so much from that person I used to be. Here's how, here's why, and if I can do it you can absolutely do it because I am like hard and fast on my opinions about things for no reason whatsoever. Or at least used to be, now I try to have you know some reasoning behind my beliefs. But. You know it's. Yeah. It is definitely I agree that this authentic social media has somehow become less authentic. (Lexi laughs) Like. (Alexis laughs) - Yeah yeah. It is it's weird it's definitely weird. And I do think that like you can be authentic without sharing every single part of yourself. And I do think it is healthy to decide these things are things that are private. These I don't wanna talk about. If that's your mental health, or your family, or your other job if you've got you know if you've got a side hustle or something like that and you only wanna talk about your main job or your side hustle, whichever. It is healthy. So to put those boundaries in place so that you know like I don't feel comfortable sharing these things. But that it doesn't make you inauthentic to have those boundaries. - [Lexi] Exactly. - It's about what you share being honest. To me that's really what it's about. It's not sharing literally everything, it's just if you choose to share something it's gotta be your experience, or your thoughts, or your ideas and stuff with your own slant on it. It's not. Kind of a. (Alexis laughs) An improved version of those things. - Right right. Or oh I saw so-and-so post this and so now that's my new opinion. Like you know that's yeah. Like I agree boundaries are important, again back to that boundary line right. Like you know it's whether you're somebody sharing on social or you're managing social or what it is like boundaries are so important. And I am the worst boundary not respecter, I guess, setter, I'm just a terrible boundary setter. I try really hard to respect boundaries. I will accidentally trip over other people's boundaries. It's never intentional, and it's a thing I always have to focus on in myself. But like. It's mostly because I'm such a bad boundary setter that I'm just like oh yeah right they fully. I had a friend who's fabulous about that. If they are someone that I wanna talk to about a problem I'm having they've made it very clear that I need to ask them before I just start spewing. And they've said like if you come to me, 'cause I have friends that I can just go to and be like ugh this happened and they're like "girl tell me about it" like you have those people and you know who you are you learn. But not everybody will tell you you know when they're not in a good place to be talked to. And I know like for me I'm always ready for someone to spill the tea. But not everybody is in a good place for that. And so I've got really good at being like do you have the spoons for this? Are you you know available to talk about this right now? And if they say no then I just respect that. And you know I don't love them any less, they don't love me any less, that's their boundary. You know and it's I think it's so important to learn how to yeah and sometimes you don't find your boundaries until you trip over them. Right you're like oh there that was. That didn't realise that was a boundary, that's a boundary. And but just learning how to speak those and communicate them with other people and be firm in them in a way that you know it's still you're not just like no! And shutting down. Although if someone pushes enough you can fully do that, it's within your right. But you know trying to guide people to where your limits are I think is important. But we're kind of not really taught that either. So Alexis our goal is to set up a programme where we teach kids how to set boundaries, and teach them about their mental health, and we need to get this programme in the schools. - Yes we do. - Let's take on another project, we're not busy enough. - I am really really good about like small attainable goals. (Alexis laughs) Let's change the world. - That was not a small attainable goal was it? - An improvement. (Alexis and Lexi laugh) - Okay all right, so like let's just, I'll start working like on my kids then I guess, that's my small attainable goal. Like I suppose that's probably where I should start anyway. Like. Fine. Like although I have to say like my kids school is very good about mental health for being in such a small town, they're pretty decent about it. But I fully agree with what you said in the beginning, like it just needs to be, let's teach these kids like how to function as an adult not just as a productive member of society. Because that's not all people need to be to be valuable. Right like I know plenty of people who wouldn't be considered productive who are still amazing human beings and that's not your value as a person. So. You know but it's. Yeah. We have like bounced all over the place on this conversation I love it. (Alexis and Lexi laugh) - We have we have. It has been very very lovely to talk to you. - You too. - And what I actually I wanna send people a little challenge to share what their boundaries are. It can be on social media obviously, that would make sense. But they could be just general boundaries, share your general boundaries. Tag me, tag Lexi. All the links will be in the show notes, but tell us where can people find you? - Okay so I'm on Twitter at Lexi Markets. I'm on Instagram also at Lexi Markets. And that's pretty much it. I'm not super active. There's kinda that trope of like the the social media manager never has their own social media presence. Like we do but we don't. And I so admire like yours. I'm like I don't know how she has the time to do this. Like and be so amazing at the same time. Like that is one of my weaknesses. But yeah, Twitter and Instagram mostly. And. Yeah that's pretty much it. - I will put all the links in the show notes so people can find you super super easily. It has been so lovely to have you. (Alexis laughs) - Thank you, thank you for having me. This was so much fun. I love like getting to chat marketing with people who's eyes don't glaze over the minute that I start talking. (Alexis laughs) - Yeah it is nice to be able to talk about it and have people nod along and not in the just smile and nod smile and nod way. (Lexi laughs) - Yeah. Yeah maybe eventually they'll stop talking about it. Like no I won't, you're gonna have to shut me up. - [Announcer] If you want more regular reminders to find your own way to use social media, follow Alexis on your social platform of choice. All the links will be in the show notes. Until next time. Be a human.